Author Topic: Can workers make new queen to replace drone-laying queen?  (Read 6315 times)

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Offline litefoot

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Can workers make new queen to replace drone-laying queen?
« on: July 25, 2014, 02:48:35 pm »
My guess is no. This is an improperly or un-mated queen right? Will the workers assume it's a fertilized egg since the queen scent is still in the hive? Now I have to tell the story of why I'm asking:

I had a hive full of drone cells, not grouped well. No sign of queen. Laying workers I presumed. Shook off the bees away fron hive since I've had no luck trying to save laying worker hives. After I shook out the last frame to be dumped, I find 2 queen cells on bottom of frame with larvae that I destroyed when pulling frames apart. Huh? :eusa_doh:

After two days, most of the dumped bees had flown off to find new quarters. A decent-sized ball of bees remained on the ground gathered under the edge of a pallet. I'm curious so I scoop them into a nuc. Next day I find a queen amongst the bees (she must have been there all along) and I'm watching her lay eggs so I let them be. A few days later, I have capped drone brood (no worker brood) in the nuc AND an uncapped queen cell with a larva in it. What do I do now? Pinch the queen and let the nuc develop a new queen (if they can)...or...pinch the queen, destroy
the queen cell and move the workers (now known to not be laying) to another colony. Guess I could re-queen, but I'm trying to keep everything in-house.

Offline Jen

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Re: Can workers make new queen to replace drone-laying queen?
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2014, 02:58:38 pm »
Good topic here litefoot... hubby and I were just discussing this, I'll be listening :D
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Offline iddee

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Re: Can workers make new queen to replace drone-laying queen?
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2014, 03:35:58 pm »
They tried to make a queen in desperation. They used drone larva. They got a drone queen. Kill her and the cells and scatter the workers, but don't let Ellen Degenerous know about it. She would start a national scandal about killing a drone queen.   :o :o :D
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Offline Perry

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Re: Can workers make new queen to replace drone-laying queen?
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2014, 03:59:57 pm »
You could try and purchase a queen. I have run across this as well, and actually you have a bit of a silver lining here. By destroying the drone layer and waiting 24 hours, you should be able to requeen without too much trouble. Not so easy with blaying workers which you can't identify.
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Offline riverbee

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Re: Can workers make new queen to replace drone-laying queen?
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2014, 06:06:03 pm »
litefoot, update?
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Offline 100 td

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Re: Can workers make new queen to replace drone-laying queen?
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2014, 09:47:21 am »
I should keep my mouth shut............
In the last week I have been  reading a lot about queens, and came across something that says it's possible.

Thelytoky is a type of parthenogenetic reproduction where unfertilized eggs develop into females (Suomalainen 1950).

Thelytoky in a Strain of U.S. Honey Bees (Apis Mellifera L.)
May, 1991 – Bee Science
From here
http://www.beesource.com/point-of-view/ed-dee-lusby/historical-data-on-the-influence-of-cell-size/thelytoky-in-a-strain-of-us-honey-bees-apis-mellifera-l/

Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: Can workers make new queen to replace drone-laying queen?
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2014, 10:01:15 am »
100 td   Welcome to the Forum!!!
   Great link. Excellent reading and information I have never seen or heard of before..    Is this serious?

   Of the 18 colonies of LUS tested for thelytoky, 55.6% reared worker brood from the eggs of laying workers, and 50% reared queens. Queens from the brood of laying workers emerged only in the 4-5 frame nucleus colonies, and never in the observation hives. In the nucleus colonies, sometimes a patch of worker brood was produced and the queen cell was constructed within that patch (Fig 1.). A queen cell positioned among worker brood is commonly seen in a colony that is requeening itself in the conventional manner using brood from the previous queen. However, some queen cells from thelytokous LUS colonies were located at the very top of the frame. Neither CP or cd constructed queen cups in this region. A queen produced from laying worker eggs successfully mated and produced worker and drone brood. However, eight of the nine queens produced from workers’ brood either did not return to the hive after a mating flight, or were critically injured during artificial insemination.

LUS were selected from commercial European honey bee stock, indicating that thelytoky may exist as part of the overall Apis mellifera gene pool. However, reports indicate that in managed colonies thelytoky is expressed at a very low frequency (Mackensen 1943). This may be because beekeeping practices inadvertently select against thelytoky. For example, swarming and supercedure can be minimized through various management techniques, and thus the possibility of a colony becoming queenless due to the loss of a virgin queen can be reduced. If colonies lose their queens and do not have brood to produce replacements, the queens often are replaced with new ones by beekeepers. Hence, there is no selective pressure for thelytoky in colonies managed in this manner.

We stopped finding eggs in the colonies once the queen emerged and was present in the hive. The colony whose queen successfully mated, behaved like any other colony with a new queen. After mating the queen began laying worker brood which was cared for by the adult workers in the colony.

   
   It looks to me like the odds are against this happening, especially in our managed hives, but it is information I have never seen or read about.   THANKS for the link!!!
   Scott
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Offline iddee

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Re: Can workers make new queen to replace drone-laying queen?
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2014, 10:24:16 am »
 Thelytoky is very common in many species of insects, but rare in honey bees. It has been known to happen, tho.
It is fairly common in the Cape bees.

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Offline Beeboy

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Re: Can workers make new queen to replace drone-laying queen?
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2014, 10:35:43 am »
They tried to make a queen in desperation. They used drone larva. They got a drone queen. Kill her and the cells and scatter the workers, but don't let Ellen Degenerous know about it. She would start a national scandal about killing a drone queen.   :o :o :D
  :laugh: