another Rat scenario

[Riverrat]

Your a first year keep and with the help of worldwidebeeking forum you had a successful year living in Wisconsin. You have decided to increase your hive count from the 2 strong hives you babied through the year to 10 next season.  Its mid September and your making plans. Figuring out how your going to make the increase happen.  A keep in the neighboring county has decided to retire and is selling out his hives.  He has contacted you about buying  10 hives. The asking price is $200.00 a hive with you taking immediate possession.  The hives are all in 3 year old equipment and are 2 deeps, telescoping covers and stand. 5 of the 10 are light on stores but other than that they appear to be good healthy hives.  Being anxious to make the increase  its hard to wait until spring.  So whats the plan. Buy the hives and take a chance on them overwintering or wait it out to make the increase in the spring. Oh did I  mention its been colder than usual and feeding 2:1 syrup to get the hive weight up may or may not be an option. Lets even make it more interesting upon inspecting the hives you find a cardboard beer coaster under the inner cover of each hive.  Puzzling isn't it why would a keep have beer coasters in a hive.

[riverbee]

" upon inspecting the hives you find a cardboard beer coaster under the inner cover of each hive.Puzzling isn't it why would a keep have beer coasters in a hive. "

cuz we do in wisconsin?.......
nope the answer is..........

i know what i would do.....but looking to see what other replies would bee from others younger in beekeeping and what they would think or say to your question rat....great question!

[Perry]

Three years isn't old for equipment so that's a plus.
I'll wait as well for others to chip in. 

[Bakersdozen]

Here is my thoughts on the subject.  I think I would pass.  I go by the theory, "Take your losses in the fall."  That doesn't mean you have to buy trouble.  The other beekeeper should take his losses in the fall.  The wooden ware sounds like it might be workable.  If I had to guess, I would say the beer coaster has something to do with treating for mites or is a haven for small hive beetle to hide. 
I would leave him with the understanding that you might be interested in talking with him in the spring.  Then you could see what was still left of the colonies. 
In this puzzle, I found it interesting that the old beekeeper is retiring and his equipment is only 3 years old.  Hmmm?

[Riverrat]

In this puzzle, I found it interesting that the old beekeeper is retiring and his equipment is only 3 years old.  Hmmm?

Very Good call baker.  I believe I would be asking some question as to why he is retiring.

[rcannon]

I think $200/hive is a little steep this time of year. You mentioned that a few are light, so you know you'll have to feed them as long as the weather allows. And hope it's enough to carry them thru winter.
I think I'd offer $150/hive if he insists on selling them now. If he refuses, I'd wait until spring to see how many survive.
But,then again, I don't know anything about getting bees thru a northern winter. If I found that deal here, I'd be all over it. But we'd still have to haggle on the price.

[Riverrat]

Any ideas especially from the new beeks on why there would be beer coasters inside the hive

[CpnObvious]

Any ideas especially from the new beeks on why there would be beer coasters inside the hive

(This was my initial thought...
My first thought, as Bakersdozen suggested (so I didn't), is that the coasters are for some sort of treatment... soaked in something, perhaps?...
Either that, or to keep the moisture from a nice, tall, adult beverage from dripping into the hive.

But now that I've re-read (and took note that the coaster is cardboard, not cork...

Might the cardboard allow moisture up and around to vent out into the outer cover, but if it condensates and drips down it will soak into the cardboard and freeze, not drip down into the hole onto the cluster?

[Bamabww]

I think $200/hive is a little steep this time of year. You mentioned that a few are light, so you know you'll have to feed them as long as the weather allows. And hope it's enough to carry them thru winter.
I think I'd offer $150/hive if he insists on selling them now. If he refuses, I'd wait until spring to see how many survive.
But,then again, I don't know anything about getting bees thru a northern winter. If I found that deal here, I'd be all over it. But we'd still have to haggle on the price.

Exactly my thoughts.

[Bamabww]

Any ideas especially from the new beeks on why there would be beer coasters inside the hive

I've made beetle traps from campaign signs so I'm guessing the beer coasters are traps. But I've never been to Wisconsin or endured a northern winter so I don't know.

[tedh]

Okay, I'll bite.  First, while not certain if $200 per hive is a fair price, I could easily find out.  Having said that, the total cost of the hives would be $2,000.  No way would I make that kind of investment right now.  Or, does this first year beek have unlimited financial resources?  Moving on,  half the hives are light?  That could possibly be remedied by combining, again, something I could find out from others with more experience.  The coasters...there's the rub.  I doubt that anyone would be so tidy as to keep coaster's in the hive just in case they need to put a drink down.  But, really, coasters outside?  I'd have to leave that party!  I would think that the coasters were placed there on purpose.  My guess (like others) would be treatment of some kind.  The BIG questions for me would be, WHAT were the hives being treated FOR, and WHAT were they being treated WITH?  If I couldn't get THAT info, I'd have to pass on the whole deal, even with unlimited financial resources.  Ted

[riverbee]

without answering rats question myself just yet, i will just chime in a little on the price rat mentioned on a healthy double deep hive for 200 bucks, if the equipment is in good shape, rat said the equipment was 3 years old.  it's a fair price up here. beeks can get $250 or more for an established double deep with a good queen. if you add up the costs of the woodenware, 2 deeps + drawn comb (added plus) + queen/bees + bottom board + tele cover and stand, it's fair, but as others mentioned here it doesn't hurt to counteroffer this time of year.

so in perspective, think on what you spend for your woodenware, your queens, your bees, foundation, frames, and your time to put it together and paint or stain etc....
i have paid 135 bucks for a 5 frame nuc in july in either a wooden box or a cardboard box, and what i am getting is an established nuc with  5 drawn frames with the queen and bees. (i have to return the wooden nuc).  this coming season, the price is probably 150 $ + unless i purchase more than one, say 5, and i am given a small discount.

on the question of what it takes to get a hive through a northern winter?  we all have similar concerns, strong healthy colony and stores going into winter months no matter where we live. our season in the north is shorter on the fall feed end and queens stop laying earlier and start laying later in late winter/early spring than in warmer temps. our winters are longer and more harsh conditions. the difference is maybe wrapping, ventilation, but more importantly heavy on the stores; strong, healthy colonies and stores. if we don't have that we leave extra honey on, feed or combine and feed, or add winter patties, or some sort of fondant/candy board to get us through spring, if necessary.  also, lifting of or hip checking hives for the weight and be ready on a warm sunny winter day to quickly check and replace any fondant, sugar, or patty.

EDIT AND ADD: i also add 2" of insulation on top the inner cover......

the beer coaster..........
hope they are  from the rush river brewery rat......

[Riverrat]

OK all good answers.  Usually if you find a beer coaster in a hive the owner most likely is treating the bees for mites using an unapproved chemical.  There are a few things that will do the trick. I have never used any of them and wont name what they are.  I will say I have bought nucs and found them in the nucs. And if you go into some feed stores in some areas and ask for certain items without them knowing you they will assume you are probably treating bees. Especially if they know you don't own a horse  $200 is not a bad price but for me a little steep going into winter.  Combining the light hives would put the cost at $400.00 hive and that's getting steep as is the same situation if you lose half the hives through the winter.

[Zweefer]

Sorry I missed this until now.   I AM a first year keep in WI and having a successful first year I will tell you after last winter (especially brutal) I am very concerned about overwintering.   I would wait to see how the first two do before investing in more bees.  I'd rather have the blood of two hives on my hands for not knowing what it takes to overwinter up here than 12.   If he is anxious to be done, there is some room for negotiation on price, but I'd definitely wait until spring.   The only plus as Riverbee has mentioned is wooden ware, but I can build all of that on my own for way cheaper than it would cost from a supplier.  How are things in the current two hives?  Treatment would indicate there is a problem in the "new" hives, and that would need to be considered as well... What are you bringing to your new apiary?  A deal isn't a deal if it costs more to repair / mend back to a normal status.

Sorry if these thoughts are shotgunned out here... It's been a very long week :-)