Oh No! Cause For Alarm! Queen Is Outside The Hive!!!

[Jen]

Iddee- "an over wintered virgin queen can never mate. They have a window of a few weeks after birth to mate, otherwise they never do

     That is a very good bit of info there, Thanks Idde, I have wondered the same thing ~

[Jen]

Reposted ~

Iddee, River and Gypsi:  I'll have to wait until Thurs to get into this hive. What should my plan of action be?

   I know to check for a queen...

   If I see loaded queen cells? should I leave them alone?

   If I find more than one queen, I should leave them to duke it out.. right?

   I know I can combine, but would another solution be to buy another mated queen to see this hive thru the winter? Would she be accepted this time of year? I'm thinking so?

[Gypsi]

If you see queen cells, remove. If you see multiple queens, kill the skinny one. If you do not see the older queen (larger abdomen) consider combining with another hive, newspaper combine.

or let nature's take its course and keep an eye on it. But I would get the queen cells out, nothing good can come out of them

[riverbee]

jen, my best guess is your original queen, or the queen that you found outside the hive is in that hive, and the bees or she, took care of the virgin queen you found dead outside the hive.  when you inspect the hive, look for her, and also look for other young queens.

to your question, any queen will not be able to mate this time of year (lack of drones) and also late summer/ fall supersedures are not going to be good queens. (how they are fed + drone population).

"is it possible for this new queen to wait until spring to mate for next years production?"

what iddee said, no.

what should you do?  not knowing what's been going on in there in the past month, and what's going on now with the recent developments? 
personally with the 'problems' you have experienced with this hive, i would be inclined to send the queen off on a farewell, cut every cell, (if they exist) and any other queen, (if they exist) leave them queenless for a day (make sure they are queenless) and combine it with another hive, and distribute the resources.  in the spring you could potentially make some nice divides.  also, your problem with that deep is solved.  how strong is this colony?  if the bees are trying to replace the queen, this is a clue. also consider that  this hive may not make it with the existing queen. you don't need a hail mary hive. also, i would not purchase a mated queen.

[Jen]

Riv, this sounds like a good plan ~

    "you don't need a hail mary hive"  Intrigued, what is a hail mary hive? Does this have something to do with catholic bees? 


    also, i would not purchase a mated queen. Curious, would purchasing a mated queen have something to do with the time of year?

[Gypsi]

Time of year and state of bee-mind I would think Jen.  Of the two queens I bought in mid september, one has flown the coop to who knows where, I just divided that hive and shared resources and bees with 2 others.

The other purchased queen I will see if she has laid any eggs now that she found the comb tomorrow or Friday. She was above the inner cover looking confused.

Requeening is always a bit of a challenge, as the bees may or may not accept the new queen; this time of year it's a real gamble.

I could second Riv's combine approach completely. Especially as it is cooling off there.

I am nervous about letting hives get too strong here just now, lest they pull a late season suicidal swarm.  That happened to me in late October last year, still warm, good big strong hive ready for winter, lost the whole thing.

[Jen]

Gypsi- "I am nervous about letting hives get too strong here just now, lest they pull a late season suicidal swarm.  That happened to me in late October last year, still warm, good big strong hive ready for winter, lost the whole thing.

      I know the bees are going to do what they're gonna do, but this hive and the hive next to it both have dinks, also very swarmy queens. This hive has a medium half full of brood and a good amount of bees. The hive next to it has a deep half full of brood and a good amount of bees. Seems to me that this combo still wouldn't bee too crowded at first.

      Then I was thinking, if all goes well, and this hive doesn't swarm itself to death in spring like last spring... I would replace the dink with a new mated queen when the weather is conducive to open up the hive. 

       

[riverbee]

"you don't need a hail mary hive"  Intrigued, what is a hail mary hive? Does this have something to do with catholic bees? 

well, you might have catholic bees, look for rosary beads in there.......

hmmm a crap shoot hive....
we as beeks usually figure out what to do with problem hives well before fall  months,  and if we don't or are faced with a decision in late summer/fall months, i call them hail mary hives.....so we do what we can. sometimes they make it, sometimes they don't.
it is typically not beneficial to try and 'save'  or 'rescue' a hive in fall season. best practice is to combine a failing hive with another this time of year otherwise you are practicing 'hail mary', or the last ditch attempt to save them and hope for the best. that's my description, i am sticking to it.....

[Gypsi]

You are all a lot colder than I am.  Right now I'm having 90's in the daytime and 70's at night.

[Jen]

gyspi- "I am nervous about letting hives get too strong here just now, lest they pull a late season suicidal swarm.  That happened to me in late October last year, still warm, good big strong hive ready for winter, lost the whole thing.

     That explaination works for me  no holy water needed here. I was raised and baptised lutheran so I know some of this stuff.

Thanks Riv and Gypsi, always enjoy you two girls