Spring Feeding Overwintered Hives?

[Crofter]

I have been rolling around some notions on early spring feeding which is something we have not done before. Just for reference dandelion bloom is about 3rd week in May for me and 2nd week for my son. We are thinking of putting some pollen sub / sugar patties into some of the hives hoping to get the numbers up to full force for the start of clover about the 10th of June. Night time temperatures dip close to freezing till near first of June so am not sure if hive top feeders will work. Frame feeders maybe? How early?

Just kind of brainstorming this as a lot of strategy dates I see is from much warmer climate. Probably riverbee would be close in climate. Maybe some similarity in bee type too as I think of mine as being along the Carni, Russian, lines.

Mixed with these thoughts is eventual swarm control but that is further down the road; made more necessary by any early feeding though, no doubt.

[iddee]

Thinking they would start laying about 5 days after you began feeding, then 42 days for 2 cycles, I would place pollen patties on the top bars and set open feeders out everyday when the temp reached 43 F. "6.1 C."", or when they started flying, then take it in when they quit going to it in the evening. Keep it warm for setting out the next day, beginning 47 days before expected first bloom. Then start checking for swarm cells and available space beginning 20 days into it. They can fill all empty space faster than you will realize.

Just my .02, and that ain't much with the inflation of today.

[Jen]

Iddee- check for swarm cells as in supercedure queen cells?

[riverbee]

iddee is right on with the numbers crofter, i like to get the pollen sub in earlier if i can........anywhere between 6 and 8 weeks to set a pollen sub and feed in....you and i are similiar on the dandelion bloom, anywhere between the 2nd and 3rd week of may, usually the 2nd week for us, weather conditions permitting, so i try to get the pollen subs in on top the frames in early-mid march. so a window of 42 days-56 days ahead of the first flow; dandelions.  with my russkies, i haven't had to feed, but if you need to, try the winter patties out or mix up your own, not that hard and slip them in with the pollen sub.  i  have placed enclosed syrup pails on in late march through may.....and we can get hard freezes here into the first week of june. so let your weather conditions be your guide and judgment on this.  i have never tried open feeding as iddee suggested.

as far as swarm control....LOL, there are many thoughts and variables that go into this....some say divide before the first major flow, or during or just after, only you can decide by paying attention to what's going on in your hives and when to divide them to keep them from swarming. it's about timing really i think.

like iddee said keep your eye on queen cells and available space, this will tell you what to do.  i haven't been really diligent or set in a certain protocol......i just wing it......LOL......i like my bees to make the most out of the first flow if i can, and then divide them.

jaybird, swarm cells not supecedure cells......swarm cells will be found on the bottoms of your frames in spring months.  i posted a thread here on identification of queen cells; its here on this thread: queen cell identifications; http://www.worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/index.php/topic,153.msg1087.html#msg1087

[Crofter]

I split hives this past spring (mid June) with new queens in each split. It was a poor nectar year and I had to feed about 40 pounds of sugar to get them up to ~130 Lb. weight for double deep hive. I am thinking I have to have the numbers up sooner to take advantage of the first flows.

I dont want to feed all hives, so open feeding would not be first choice, though that idea of putting out warm syrup each day sounds like it would work. I do have miller type hive top feeders on hand; Perhaps I could put in a couple of quarts of warm syrup without opening the hive much.

We commonly get a warm break mid March so that sounds like about the time to move on this. Since I now have about the number of hives I want I am not so worried about doing one it or setting it back somehow.

Thanks for the ideas,

[riverbee]

i have done a number things frank, but again let what i say be only a guide for you.  we had and have had poor nectar flows for the past couple years.  feeding is necessary to build them up if need be and also to sustain if required.

i have started pollen subs much earlier to enhance the buildup to divide before the dandelion flow, so that i have strong divides for the flow.  what this does though, it takes away from the strong colony/s that might make you 2 to 3 times the honey that the divides do for that flow.  so sometimes, with very strong colonies i will not divide them until after this flow is over or only do a 'soft' divide.  as far as swarming with this, i keep them busy building comb in supers or in the deep, making sure there is plenty of space for the queen to lay and they are not getting crowded.  you can keep feed on, syrup pails, until that comb is built. do not use a queen excluder at this time. remove the syrup when the flow starts.  have to keep an eye on the comb building with syrup pails on overtop supers, you don't want syrup in your honey supers, so a matter of timing and a close watch.  the soft divide is to remove just enough frames and replace with drawn comb/foundation.  if the queen lays up in the super, not a problem, just move her down to the deeps, place the excluder on and the bees will take care of the brood.  when that brood hatches, the bees will clean and polish the cells for the liquid gold.

[Crofter]

"soft divide" You mentioned this on the other forum and I was not sure what you meant. I think I get it as just bleeding off enough brood from a strong hive to keep them from swarming.  I think that is what I will want to do with about half the hives. If I do have to create some new hives I do have the equipment; just dont want to start enlarging bear fence and getting more hives than I can look after happily.

Thinking fewer hives managed more efficiently.

[riverbee]

"just bleeding off enough brood from a strong hive to keep them from swarming"

yes, exactly and it works. a soft divide is taking just enough from one or whatever strong colonies you have to create a nuc or nucs or a single deep/s.

[G3farms]

Yes this does work. I have pulled strong nucs out of marginal hives, then combine all of the queenless leftovers back together to make a strong hive. Not a good way to expand the bee yard but that was not my goal at the time either.

[riverbee]

i think that is what crofter is after, not wanting to expand his yard or the fencing!

[Jen]

Very interested in this topic, but gotta get this holiday week wrapped up. I will also give a recipe for making your own propolis tinture