Is this a moisture issue?

[CpnObvious]

I had ordered winter patties from Mann Lake.  A couple weeks ago temps here actually hit low 40s! (very abnormal).  I have double deeps, inner cover (with a notch in it), top/outer cover.  In one hive, I took the outer cover off, placed a winter patty on the inner cover over about 1/3 of the hole from the deep to the top side of the cover (I hope that makes sense).  In the other hive, which I don't get to as frequently, I placed two patties the same way.

One Sunday (temps in the low 30s) I took the entrance reducer out, scraped all the dead bees from the bottom board out, and put the reducer back.  Bees were buzzing a bit. 
One or two came out to see what was going on.

On Tuesday (also in the lower 30's) I went to the other hive to do the same thing.  the entrance reducer was kind of stuck in place by what was most-definitely melted winter patty.  I took the reducer out, was scraping the dead bees out... and a WHOLE bunch of bees were clearly unhappy about my presence.

My question being... Why/how would the winter patties have melted and dripped all the way down like that?  Are the bees warming the hive up that much?  Is there too much moisture in the top of the hive, thus making the patty wet and allowing it to drip?  Should I drill a 5/8" hole in the side of my upper deeps?

[Ray4852]

This will solve your problem. Get the homasote board too. These winter covers are excellent. I have them on all of my hives. How I use it. Shallow side with notch facing down. Pull out the yellow plug and Jar feeder. Put your fondant on top of the cover or use a rim spacer with it to feed your bees. The homasote board goes on top to help absorb some of the moisture . The two holes get rid of the warm moist air in the hive. This cover will keep your hive dry all winter. Your outer cover goes over the winter cover.

 http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/10-Frm-Wintering-Inner-Cover/productinfo/W671/

[riverbee]

my advice, do not use homosote.

[Ray4852]

Riverbee

I have been using it now for 2 years. No problem with it.

[riverbee]

capn, i have not experienced this, but i have heard similar stories either with the patty or fondant.  is your hive in full sun?  does the sun hit the top of the hive?

ray, to answer your question,
"The homasote board goes on top to help absorb some of the moisture .  This cover will keep your hive dry all winter."

many beeks use homasote, the u of m also promotes using it.  i quit using it 8 or 10 years ago.  it does absorb moisture, and a lot of moisture. soaking wet moisture, and sometimes can't absorb any additional moisture.  freeze, thaw, the moisture has only one place to go.  about the first time or two you lose a hive and can't figure out why, a clue might well be that soaking wet homasote and your  wet inner cover.  like everything else, do what works for you,  the homosote didn't work for me. i think there are better alternatives for extreme weather beeks.

[LazyBkpr]

What Mrs. River is talking about is the saturation point. Once that H Board reaches that point, it WILL kill your bees.  if it never reaches the saturation point, it will work EXCELLENTLY for you. The difference is in the climate and whether you use an upper entrance or not.
   I also do NOT use those boards. I use 2" insulation, and an upper entrance. using both have PROVEN time and again to be effective. Even in winters of -50 degrees.  The absorbent material of the board would have worked last winter for me in the frigid COLD.. but it would have failed miserably this year with the wildly varying temps and high humidity.

[Ray4852]

Scott

I agree the weather has been very changeable this year for temp. right now I’m using this stuff on two hives. The homasote board is one inch. I also use the regular one inch blue insulation board on top of the homasote board to give me 2 inch protection. The two boards fit nicely together with this winter cover. First nice day I’m going to check it out. You and RB thanks for the tip.

[riverbee]

yes scott, saturation.  one hive loss during winter months is one too many and i am not willing to chance losing a hive when using this material and bees when it could have been prevented. every winter is different but i want something that works during winter, every winter, and not something i am going to have to trudge out and check/replace and disturb a hive if it is saturated.

ray, like scott, i use 2" insulation and upper entrance. effective as scott said.  this material (homasote) may work for you, just be aware of what can happen with it until you experience the loss of hive from it.  if it gets soaked change it out.  used to be you couldn't buy homasote except through big box building stores, and you had to buy an entire sheet and cut it yourself.  now every beekeeping supplier is carrying it and selling it. few realize the potential downfalls of it. i have looked at a number of hives for new beeks here because they followed the advice of whomever to use these to find the homasote soaked and dripping. and the inner cover wet and moldy.

if you are using insulation above the homasote ray, and many beeks do,  the insulation will do nothing to help your bees once this material is soaked. so now you aware of what can happen. 

even a medium box with screen on the bottom filled with loosely packed straw works great to absorb moisture, and insulate.....i used this for some time, but got tired of dragging bales and boxes to the hives......

so back to capn's original question, about the dripping patty on the bottom board. post back capn, would like to know if you have direct sunlight on the outercover of the hive.....?

[Gypsi]

Good to know.  I do not use the fondant patties at all, if I make fondant with pollen sub I make a hard candy fondant, the recipe is somewhere on the site as I added it last year.  With the humidity around here swinging from 90% to 20% I don't count on anything to absorb it, but rather try to vent a bit around the edges of my outer cover, use screened bottom boards, and when it gets really cold I am now using "vented" sticky boards (otherwise known as floating pond tomato plant trays that I made.  blocks major wind but plenty of openings to let moisture that runs down the sides of the hive in cold weather drip out.

I use 1 inch styrofoam inside my telescoping lids, and that is set over an empty medium where I place hard candy feed, and in weather where the bees are likely to take syrup, syrup on stick supports, a single quart at a time.  I would never put 4 quarts on the way temp swings cause leakage. 

[CpnObvious]

The hive that had the "melted" patties is in full sun all day.  The other only gets sun through the naked trees.  I'd be surprised if it truly warmed to the point that it would just be that drippy... which is why I'm thinking moisture.

[riverbee]

"the hive that had the "melted" patties is in full sun all day."

capn thanks, i suspected this....but....

this is a wild guess, but my guess is and i am thinking the full sun on top the outer cover and heat from full sun, contributed to the 'melting' of the patty.  these have sugar and some water content in them? also, heat rises, it's warmer at the top of the box configuration than the bottom.   moisture? moisture can be 'absorbed' into the patty, no different than fondant or the mountain camp method. maybe between the heat and excess moisture absorbed into the patty made them runny?

not sure what the answer is here capn, but i think the direct sun may have contributed to the 'melting'.  i would be inclined to try placing a shim on above the top deep to place the patties into, rather than above the inner cover, under the outer cover.