Finger Joint Question(s)?

[Newbee]

I should probably post these on a wood-working forum, but if you're reading this one on this board, I'm certain you've got an opinion that can help me! 

I'm planning on building Langstroth-style hive boxes, medium-sized (not sure I want deeps yet, but that detail is irrelevant for the questions), using 1x8 white-wood lumber from local home center (Birch if I can swing the $cake$):

Hoping to build a practice box or two today and my noodle started cooking over that 2nd cup this morning...

How wide do you make your finger joints? What plans I've looked at show about 3/4ths of an inch in most cases? 1x lumber is 0.75 dimensional, so... is it standard to make fingers = stock width? (never made a box/finger-joints before).

I have a wobbler-style Dado (and sled-style jig for making the cuts). I know, piece of junk, but 5-bucks off Craigslist is better than the $50 Home Depot wants for a stacked-setup (and my table is a Junky old Craftsman). Assuming I cut the fingers to a depth of 0.75" (or greater), should I cut in multiple passes (considering the setup, I'm thinking that's a lot of material to remove in 1-pass, even going slow?)

.. and if so, how best to ensure all boxes in the joint are universal? Make the final-depth pass on all-boards at the same time? Is it easy to get out-of-square, or does the jig tend to compensate for human-error?

.... What about wider-fingers? Say 1-inch, to 1.5 inches?

.... Do you cut slightly under-sized and hand-tune w/ sand-paper/chisel?


... SURE, it'd be nice to have a better saw and stacked dado, but I have fun working w/ the wee-one's in the shed.... I do have a nice router, and a guy @ work has the Porter-Cable Router jig thinggy.... come time to build the real-hive, I'll probably ask to borrow that thing for a weekend and make it perfectly tight, LOL, but I enjoy the learning, have picked up some experience, and it gets the kids outside and not exercising their thumbs in-front of the Tee-Vee! 

I'll probably come up w/ more questions after the 3rd cup. LOL!
Thanks!

- K

[Yankee11]

How about just cutting a 3/4 rabbit on each end of the front and back boards. Less room for mistakes. A lot of folks like the 3/4 inch rabbit joints better than the finger joints.

The finger joints can ruin a lot of wood quick. Finger joints don't leave a lot of room for error.

But to answer your question, 3/4 finger joints are common for home made boxes. 1 inch fingers are on the store bought boxes.

[Yankee11]

I more thing newbee.

If you buy your wood at the big box store HD or Lowes. You might as well buy pre-cut boxes. Their lumber is way to high. a 8ft 1x12 crappy board will run 13 or 14 bucks. I refuse to buy lumber from the places.

I can get a very nice 8 footer for 8.24 at a local building materials/lumber store. So call around.

[rwlaw]

Ya, best stick with the rabbet joints if your using a wobbly. When you go to cut, make a single blade cut on the inside of the line for the rabbet, that way you won't have so much tearout (ask me how I know  ).

[pistolpete]

You definitely don't want to attempt finger joints on a 9.5" board without high quality equipment.   I have a lifetime of wood working experience, a $1000 table saw, and a Freud Dado set, and still the box joints are a bit of a challenge.   The rabbet joint can be cut in 2 passes with a regular saw blade, just use push sticks and feather boards on the vertical pass.

[Newbee]

Thanks for all the advice!
I tried the dado today.. arbor isn't long enough! D'oh! Won't fit on the saw (good thing it was only 5-bucks!)
I ended up playing around and hand-cut some... oh my, I think I made firewood? LOL!
Though I did play around w/ the idea of trying to bisect the board into 4-fingers, flip the tops/bottoms on a pair and cut them 4-at-a-time..? So long as you divide evenly, it should work, no?
I know I could probably buy a new setup pre-cut for a reasonable price, but I'm enjoying the wood-working, and it's a fun project to mess around w/ my boys. There's a few wood-shops in town, I might take a look, see if I can get some deals on scrap pieces. They don't have to be pretty, just square. LOL!

Think you might have the right idea on a rabbet. I've got a router/table I can setup a fence on reliably, and the boys can help me do it (safely) as well. Got them new safety-glasses from Harbor Freight this week, they were psyched! LOL!

- K

[Perry]

Rabbets are too easy not to do. Just remember to cut them this way instead of the way you would think of "naturally". A cabinet maker friend of mine pointed it out to me (never occurred to do it this way). You can do your rabbet ends, and then with a quick adjustment do your frame rests in a blink.

[LazyBkpr]

Never thought of that either Perry, I cut mine the other way round...

   http://www.outyard.net/bee-hive.html

   I built a LOT of boxes using butt joints, no rabbits, no finger joints, and almost all of those boxes are still in service..
   I made finger joints.. built a jig for it, and it worked...
   But, I have to think about my time..  I also sell equipment, and the folks buying my stuff dont want to see my butt joints..      So I cut all rabbit joints now. Easier and cheaper than finger joints, and stronger than butt joints. Boxes well maintained will STILL last longer than finger joint boxes..
   The claim is, that there is less end grain on finger joint boxes..  I beg to differ..  HALF the end grain on each board is exposed, EXACTLY the same amount on a rabbit joint. The difference is, there are not so many "landings" to catch water..  Almost every finger joint box I have is SPLIT from one of the finger joint corners, while the rabbit joint boxes worst problem is warping away from the top and bottom edges..  Using tightbond 3 "seems" to have solved that problem...
   Whatever you choose to use, glue it well, and paint it well, and it will serve you well.

[Yankee11]

Yea,

The big thing is just do whats simple and just get started. The boxes will be the easy part once you get ees in the boxes, then the real questions and learning begins. And FUN.

[Zweefer]

 
Both with Yankee and Lazy.  I use rabbit joints as well.

[Yankee11]

I had givin up on finger joints until I found this.

Now I can make finger joints that fit perfect and it's unbelievable how fast this thing is. And I only use it at half capacity.

[Newbee]

Thanks for the info, guys! Great stuff!
Love that box jig Yankee... that thing is great. You should sell those! LOL!

- K

[Perry]

Hey LzyBkpr, the reason I cut my rabbets the way I do is that we use 7/8" wood up here for our boxes. If you try and stack 7/8" worth of dado blades and chippers you are maxing out your saw, and some saws don't have arbors that can adequately deal with the load. The way my bud showed me, you don't have to stack near the blades, which also probably extends the sharpness of the set.

[Yankee11]

Newbee,

I didn't make that jig. A beek in MO has a patent on it and sells them. I bought it from him.

[Newbee]

Do you have a link/website you can share? I'd be interested.
Thanks.

- K

[Yankee11]

Here is his you tube video.

His email is BoxJointJig@aol.com
He is very quick in responding and very helpfull. You will have to have a table saw that can have a 3/4 dado stack though.

[Newbee]

Thank you, Sir!

- K

[CpnObvious]

Yankee:  You may want to edit the email address you provided.  Looks like you gave out his personal address, as opposed to the one he offers at the end of the video:  BoxJointJig@aol.com  He may not want his personal email address plastered on the interwebs.

I've seen that video before when I was perusing different ways of making equipment.  Looks pretty slick

[Yankee11]

Done,

Thanks Cpn. didn't realize that.