Opinions Requested - Deadouts

[Ray]

Two of my Dead-outs have me puzzled.
One colony was 5 mediums tall, the other was 4 mediums tall.
Lots of honey, everywhere in the hive.
Lots of bees
Both colonies broke cluster. There were bees all over inside the hive, a lot of them against the south and east side of the boxes. There is shade on the west side.
No brood and only one frame of with pollen.
Insulated cover, no evidence of condensation dripping on them.
No signs of dysentery
They were alive in January.

Well?

[iddee]

Sounds like the queens died during the winter. Of course, that isn't a sure thing, just a high probability. Most likely due to high mite count.

[Jen]

Mite count... Ray, do you treat for mites? varroa and tracheal?

This talks of late winter bees with possible Tracheal mite ~

http://www.clemson.edu/extension/beekeepers/factsheets/honey_bee_tracheal_mite.html

[G3farms]

Did you dig through the frames and piles of dead bees looking for the queen?
I always try to find the queen even if it is obvious what happened to the hive.

[LazyBkpr]

I know its like beating a dead horse.. but I am going to say it again..
   Some genetics have a VERY difficult time surviving cold weather.  It has been my experience, that going into winter with GOOD proven local genetics will increase your wintering percentage dramatically.

[G3farms]

I second that, The little nuc that made it through this winter will definitely be an egg donor.

[Ray]

Thanks for the opinions.
These were splits of new packages, in new hives. Both these hives had two brood breaks, one on install and the other when they were split. I didn't think mites would be an issue and didn't look.
The bees were scattered through out the hive, looked for the queens but didn't search or find.
They were package bees out of California, probably some of those 'dime a dozen' queens. The splits were made with swarm cells out of the same stuff.
I had a lot of bitter cold/ bright sunshiny days. The hives weren't wrapped, but the sun still must of warmed them some. Could they broke cluster and got stranded?
Today is supposed to be warm enough to do a check on my living hives. Maybe that'll shed some light on my dead outs.

[G3farms]

In this cold weather you can search for mites on solid bottom boards also. They will freeze right along with the bees. SHB will freeze also, have seen them still being corralled by several frozen bees in a small corner somewhere in the hive.

[Ray]

Hard to tell about the mites, there are some, I don't know how many it would take to cause a dead out.
Would condensation on top of the hive leaking on them drive them to the walls of the hive?
I was north of the snow belt so all I got was bitter cold, this winter. I run a small top vent and it's possible it froze over.

My other six hive; 2 are sorta OK, but the other 4 are in excellent shape.
Well lazy, I know what bees I'm raising queen out of.

[rwlaw]

 I've been doing autopsies on my hives, been a mixed bag. Some evidence of mite frass in the cells, as I practice the OTS method of brood breaks for mite control that's not surprising.
 One died on the brood and starved.
 There was one like you had Ray. 
 The thing that's sticking out in the later die outs is the lack of bees in the clusters and/or the amount of dead bees around the upper hole. I'm thinking the cold got em trying to make purging flights.
Summary, beekeeper error. All hives will be evaluated in the fall and combined in September, if they have less than 7 frames of bees, the queen is subject to a hive tool examination.

[LazyBkpr]

Hard to tell about the mites, there are some, I don't know how many it would take to cause a dead out.
Would condensation on top of the hive leaking on them drive them to the walls of the hive?
I was north of the snow belt so all I got was bitter cold, this winter. I run a small top vent and it's possible it froze over.

My other six hive; 2 are sorta OK, but the other 4 are in excellent shape.
Well lazy, I know what bees I'm raising queen out of.

   Yessir!
  That will make your winter losses easier to deal with!

[CpnObvious]

Short of sending them for autopsies, the only real indication of tracheal mites is wide open wings, correct?  How else can you tell if a hive is killed because of tracheal mite infestation?

In regards to management of this, does you all feed the winter grease & menthol patties that I remember reading about in here just before winter?  Feed them the same thing in the spring as soon as you can safely open the hive?

[Jen]

Cpn, I use oxalic acid vaporizer, it killed varroa and treacheal mites. Gonna do my spring treatment this week 

[CpnObvious]

Cpn, I use oxalic acid vaporizer, it killed varroa and treacheal mites. Gonna do my spring treatment this week 

How do you know it killed tracheal mites?  Are you certain you had them?  How, can you be sure you had them?

[Jen]

I'm not sure that any of my hives had or has treacheal mites, but if they are there, they will no longer be there after OA treatment. I treat about every 3-4 months.

[Perry]

I know that formic acid kills both varroa and tracheal mites, but am not so sure that oxalic kills both.

rlaw "Summary, beekeeper error". Don't be too quick to place all the blame on yourself. Sometimes you can do everything absolutely right, and still have it come out sideways. This is nature we are dealing with, and sometimes things just die. If it wasn't the case we would soon be overwhelmed on this planet. In my mind while losing 2 of 6 seems "statistically" a bit high, I wouldn't be totally upset either. Next year you may lose none.

[LazyBkpr]

 

   Agreed!