Logging

[brooksbeefarm]

The 36 acres (woods brush and rocks) i bought about 5 yrs. ago that i keep 15 hives on has several harvestable large trees. A logger said there are 40 or more Black Walnut that are big enough to cut (he won't cut anything under 56 inches around) and several Oak trees. He said they cut and sell on shares, when they sell them they get 40% and i get 60% of the sale price. Is this a good deal or not? I know nothing about logging and have heard stories about bad logging deals. I hate to cut big trees that have been around for 75 yrs. to over a 100 yrs. and of course the owner has the tree tops to clean up, but at my age if i don't cash in the next owner will . Any of you had logging done or have any thoughts on this?? Thanks in advance. Jack

[iddee]

Here it goes 50-50. It sounds like a good deal if he is honest. Talk to a few that he has cut for and ask how good a job he did and if he paid correctly and on time.

Then sell the limbs for fire wood, 5 dollars per pickup truck, they cut.

[Ray]

Definitely get some references. If they are veneer trees they can be spoiled by dropping them wrong.
A clumsy machine operator can damage a lot of unharvested trees, spoiling or killing them.
Satisfied customers are the best advertisement, and your logger should be glad to list off several.

[pistolpete]

A large black walnut with veneer potential can be worth tens of thousands of dollars.  (I've heard figures over $50 000) So I'd shop around and get some estimates on the value.  There is potentially a whole lot of money on the line and consequently a lot of money to miss out on if the guy is not top notch.

[iddee]

I think Jack posted this in the wrong thread and it's easier to copy/paste than move a post. 


""These are Mennonite's , one of them has a bother that lives by another outyard that i have that sells organic eggs and ships them to Calif., he is a good guy and has a couple of hives i've helped him with. He's the one that gave me the log cutters name (of course there all related) When he gave me the log cutters name and spelled the last name (Swartezentruber) i told him it look like someone was trying to learn the Alphabet, he got a big kick out of it. This logger was logging some of his oak trees now. There are good ones and bad ones like in every group of people and i don't think my neighbor would of told me about him if he knew anything bad about him. I called another logger here in Fair Grove, Mo. today that locals say is honest and he made me the same deal. This property is about 60 miles north of my home so i couldn't be there to see what is going on every day. Jack""

[LazyBkpr]

My Pa had some oaks and walnuts cut about 5 years ago..  I havent the faintest idea how much money he made.. what I do know, is that what was left after the cutting was a complete disaster..  He was so ticked off he said the mess wasnt worth what he made.
   I have been cutting the remains for fire wood...    The tops are not even half of it.. they cut down hundreds of smaller trees to clear the path for the larger trees to fall, and then to skid them out..  Once usable horse trails are no longer usable.. the skidders on the hillsides tore up the ground, then it washed out with the rains...  A once beautiful timber where I hunted for nearly 40 years is no longer usable or passable...
   Its all about the money.. they want the BIG trees, and will do what they must to get them.
   I am not saying this group is that way, only that the ones who cut our land were, and that you should have a clear understanding of what is about to happen BEFORE it happens.
   Scott

[brooksbeefarm]

Thanks iddee, i thought post #4 was under the Logging thread? After the day i've had today it's a miracle i posted it in Worldwidebeekeeping .Worked an hour trying to get the tractor started, ended up being a bad ground cable . Then run the brush hog about 45 min. till i some how got around 20+ ft. of barbwire wound around the shaft and blade . Only anyone who has cut and unwind barbwire from under a brush hog can fully understand . If mom was still here and heard me, i would be sitting in a chair with a bar of Ivory soap in my mouth. Jack
PS. thanks again iddee for taking care of me.

[iddee]

Only 20+ feet? The last time I did that, I got enough on it to kill a Ferguson 4 cylinder diesel before I could cut off the PTO.       :'(

Yep, some new words are invented during those episodes.

[brooksbeefarm]

Ooooh, i don't know how i forgot to mention, Monday mourning before i was to meet the logger at this outyard, i started to the bee yard behind the house to close up 4 hives to take with me to that outyard. Well i got stuck in a mud hole and the 4x4 couldn't get me out, so walked back and got the tractor and my wife, hooked the chain up to the trailer hitch  on the truck and tractor drawbar, wife started the truck and put it in reverse I forgot to tell her to put it in neutral and let the tractor pull her out, Well the tractor was in No. 1 gear and having no trouble pulling her out when all of a sudden she hit the gas peddle. I seen what was going to happen and gave the tractor the gas, but the truck was faster and in 4x4 drive . To make this short, $1,500.00 damage, but i did take the 4 hives to the outyard and met the logger. :'( Jack

[Retroguy]

Don't know how common they are in your area but there are a few loggers around (and not necessarily Amish) that will fell a tree properly, clean it up and use a team of (or even a single) horses or mules to skid the logs out of the woods.  They say they do this because it's the least invasive method and prevents the type of situation that Iddee mentioned.  They can "snake" the good timber out with the team and not do nearly as much damage to the surrounding younger trees.

If the fellow can give you references of other folks he's dealt with and if you can contact them (and better yet take a look at the woods from which the logger(s) harvested) it should give you a better idea of what to expect.  The trees will still be there in a year so if it was me I'd take my time and study the situation a while.  I consider it a good sign if the guy isn't pushing to close a deal.  The ones that are in a hurry always make me leary.

[Ray4852]

A friend of mine is a tree forestry manager. He goes in marks the trees that need cutting and leaves the others stand. If done the right way. Your forest will look better and your good trees will grow better.  If I had your forest. I would do it. You are doing no harm to your forest if you bring in the right manager. Look around and get a few opinions before you decide if you want to do it or not. We have a state park in my area  that has black walnut over 200 hundred years old. These trees are protected by the state. We  have a tree that’s  on the top 10 lists for age in our country This tree was around during the American revolution during the Sullivan expedition 1779. I love observing the history of this tree. Two soldiers died at this tree.

   http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMEGQ9_Boyd_Parker_Torture_Tree_Leicester_NY

[brooksbeefarm]

Lots of good info from all of you, gives me a starting point. My son has put outdoor camera's on this property and has pictures of two nice 10 point bucks and one 12 point he's a bow hunter and doesn't know what this might do to his chance of getting one this fall . I told him i've never seen a deer that was worth $10,000.00 +. Yes Retroguy, there are Amish in the area and many are both Mennonites and Amish mix , i know several of them and told a group of them that they need to wear name tags because they dress the same, all about the same size, and have beard's when they get married, and i can't tell them apart. They thought that was funny. You can mention a name of one of there members 3 county's away and they will know him personally  . They are changing there way of living in our area??, but are hard workers. Jack

[LazyBkpr]

   There have been a lot of swear words used, and invented over the years when the wire, barbed or otherwise gets wrapped up in the bushhog or batwing..  Its usually a matter of driving to the shop afterwords, and using the torch to remove the wire.....
   My family, and I have been mowing the fence lines etc on this piece of property I now own for better than 140 years.. so I am still astounded when I manage to find wire that has never been found before...
   Taking that one step further.. I had the new Holland 9' cycle bar mower on the 4230 and was mowing away.. as stated, over ground that had been mowed many many times...   somehow, I stuck the very tip of the end tooth of the mower into the hole in a telephone pole anchor...   This hole is about 1" in Diameter tops....   where there could never have possibly been a telephone pole...   Busted the bar off the mower...   Attempted to make up swear words that day..

    As far as the wife helping?  I love her to death, but when she helps, a 5 project day turns into a 1 project day, and its usually four times as expensive...
   She helped me all weekend... and by the end of the weekend I was frustrated and frazzled, and had ONLY managed to get the horse stalls finished.. about a two hour project.. done in two days...   When I walked in the door Sunday evening, as it was getting dark, she handed me a rum and coke, and said...  "Thank you... For putting up with me..."
   Well, some things are worth it...

[riverbee]

"The 36 acres (woods brush and rocks) i bought about 5 yrs. ago that i keep 15 hives on has several harvestable large trees. A logger said there are 40 or more Black Walnut that are big enough to cut (he won't cut anything under 56 inches around) and several Oak trees. He said they cut and sell on shares, when they sell them they get 40% and i get 60% of the sale price. Is this a good deal or not? I know nothing about logging and have heard stories about bad logging deals. I hate to cut big trees that have been around for 75 yrs. to over a 100 yrs. and of course the owner has the tree tops to clean up, but at my age if i don't cash in the next owner will "

jack, we have 80 acres in a hardwood forest.  what we found best was to work with a forester who specializes in knowledge of trees,  timber cutting/sales.  we are also in a forest management program in wisconsin.  what we have seen and from talking with other landowners, loggers are knowledgeable to a certain degree, but really don't have the expertise the foresters do.  the forester we hired was on a flat fee. he marks the trees to be taken out, takes care of the bidding of the job, and oversees the harvesting. he makes sure they don't take what they shouldn't, and makes sure we get paid for what was harvested, some will cheat on this. some will  take trees out that shouldn't be cut if not monitored, or short a landowner on the trees that were cut.  also, if a company bids on a tree, takes it down, and it is rotted, or not what they want, they pay for it AND TAKE IT OUT. not leave it lay. (which some do)  tree tops; some tree tops are to be left, most taken out.

[Alleyyooper]

5 dollars a pick up load for fire wood you cut is just crazy cheap even here in the land of forest.
Even a half ton PU will hold 2 face cord of fire wood easy. a face cord here is selling for 40 dollars on the low side for mixed hardwoods to 65 dollars a face cord for all hard wood.

You would be having fist fights here at 5 dollars a load, maybe even some one standing guard over the wood with a shot gun to keep others from getting it.

I sell a 2ft long by 2 foot high x18 inch camp fire wood for 20.00.

   Al

[LazyBkpr]

Not sure what a face cord is??   A cord is a 4x4x8 neatly stacked..  one cord WILL fit in a standard pickup but its not pretty when its all oak.   Wood was selling for around 80 dollars a cord here last winter.

[brooksbeefarm]

A cord of wood here has been selling for $120.00 (Oak and Hickory) seasoned Walnut burns good, but makes alot of ashes and is not sort after. Jack

[iddee]

Lazy, a face cord is the face of a cord. 2ft. X 8 ft. Whether it is 16, 18, 20 or any length, neatly stacked as you would look at a cord.

Al, I can buy slabs at the sawmill, cut and load them myself, for 2.00 a small pickup. The cut, split, and delivered loads of round hardwood are the same as you quoted. People here charge a lot for their labor.