2 Queen's

[Mikey N.C.]

We inspected about 8 hives yesterday, one was a new been(friend) with one started nuc , 2 ,10 frame deeps , started nuc on 21 April (Perry Day's) added 2 and deep ,4 weeks later, added med. super 3 weeks ago, they've hardly drawn any in med., pulled #5 frame an wow seen 2 queens on the same side of frame, we used clip to grab the small queen, we've got her held up in clip in a box from a trap out ( not at trap out tree), supersede or swarm cell was located in bottom deep in the middle, box was full of 5-6 day larvae and 2 day small eggs. Did we do the right thing and how common is this  , really at a point of not knowing what to do ( is this a overcrowded situation) ? ?

[apisbees]

2 queens is more common than most would think. once you see a queen in a hive, you quite looking so it is only a fluke that you will see more than 1 queen. There is a reason that the bees are allowing 2 queens to co exist and that the queens haven't fought it out. In the case of having 2 queens I let the bees work it out as I do not know the reason the bees are tolerating this. You could very well have removed the bees replacement for a failing queen.
Now that it is done watch both very closely you may need to recombine if one fails.

[Chip Euliss]

I've seen it too Apis.  One year, I found 3 queens in the same hive.  Don't know why or how it happened but one thing I have learned as a biologist for all those years--you never say never in biology   In chemistry and physics, there are laws (like gravity) but in biology, we have rules and plenty of exceptions

[Mikey N.C.]

Exactly, with plenty of uncapped larvae an little itty bittys, couldn't understand ? ?   Do ya think she's not mated ? ?  Will they  fight it out first ,then she mates

[apisbees]

In the case of supersede the bees sense a problem with the queen and will raise a cell or a few. The bees will protect the cell from the queen tearing it down but because the bees do not want to swarm, They do not scale the queen laying back or encourage her to swarm out of the hive. The virgin will fight other virgins and tare down other cells, and will orientate flight and mate as normal, then start laying as normal. the 2 queens get use to each other being in a hive and by fall the hive will have done away with and be left with one queen.

[Mikey N.C.]

If ,we left her in original box ?

[Mikey N.C.]

Wish I could have took some pics, wasn't able . but how long can we hold this queen, an do ya think she's still virgin ?

[apisbees]

pulled #5 frame an wow seen 2 queens on the same side of frame, we used clip to grab the small queen, we've got her held up in clip in a box from a trap out ( not at trap out tree), supersede or swarm cell was located in bottom deep in the middle, box was full of 5-6 day larvae and 2 day small eggs. Did we do the right thing and how common is this  , really at a point of not knowing what to do ( is this a overcrowded situation) ? ?

In the case of swarm supersede the bees will continue to draw out new cells as long as there are young larva the proper age to do so. once the first virgins emerge they will tare down any cells that are not as advanced.
Now that it is done watch both very closely you may need to recombine if one fails.

[apisbees]

Wish I could have took some pics, wasn't able . but how long can we hold this queen, an do ya think she's still virgin ?

If she is a virgin not long as she needs the orientation flights and then mating needs to happen in 7 days +/- depending on weather and everything else Unless you see signs that she is laying I would assume that she is not mated.

What did you do with the cells that were being drawn on the frame? If you didn't destroy them the bees will make another queen.

[Mikey N.C.]

Apis, there was only 1 queen cell in the bottom 10 hatched that's the queen we have in clip

[Mikey N.C.]

So  thought that she laying good that's where I'm confused

[Mikey N.C.]

The original queen was laying good that's ,where I'm confused. Thanks for all replies. So she ( new queen was made for a reason)  .we'll keep a eye on both and see what happens.

[tecumseh]

I suspect multiple queens are more common than most folks might think. many cases where you hear the report of incredible level of brood rearing in one hive is likely the results of multiple queens.    I have produced what appeared to be superscedure queen in hives whereby the queen was laying quite nicely < a misplacement of one frame in the brood box at the right time of year is all that is required.   it also appears that are critical times of the season hives will produce what appears to be superscedure queen when they are nutritionally stressed.