nucs and supersedure?

[neillsayers]

Both of the nucs I started this spring appear to be in the process of superseding their queens. I've read that typically packages will supersede their queen within the first season. Is this common with nucs?

[apisbees]

The same influences that can effect poor queen mating for packages can also effect the mating of queens in nucs. Poor weather lack of mature drones.
In keeping bees confined in a nuc and by possibly limiting their natural expansion rate could also cause the bees to think that the queen is not preforming well.
It is hard to tell the different between swarming and superseding on a small colony. the bees may only draw out 4 cells and modify cells with young larva in them so the cells may not be on the bottom of the frames, but if left the nuc will swarm and you 1/2 the bees.

[iddee]

Package, nuc, full hive, doesn't matter. The introduced queen is often superceded. Let the nuc raise it's own queen and supercedure is unlikely.

[neillsayers]

Thanks Apis and Iddee. I appreciate the advice.

[Knucs]

I've learned that nucs can get away from you fast.  Whats the inside of the hive look like, how many frames of brood, how many open frames, are they honey bound?

[neillsayers]

knucs,

These were installed in 8 frame deeps in spring. One came to me with a virgin queen which my supplier mailed a replacement. That hive is about 90 percent drawn. The other grew like crazy and has about 70 percent of the second deep drawn. Both have capped queen cells and very little brood left.

[apisbees]

Now I remember these queens that were used to make up these nucs are the same introduced queens that are used to sell with packages. Generally they are a little better as they are the 2nd or 3rd round of of queens being produced and it is latter in the spring but even their mating success is dependent on the weather at the time.

[Chip Euliss]

I was at a bee conference at Penn State a couple of years ago and an ARS scientist gave a paper that addressed this issue.  If memory serves me, in the sample they examined, the supersedure rate was well over 50% for new introduced queens within the first 6 months of installment.  I don't know of any studies but I believe Iddee is correct in that the queens reared by a hive are longer lasting.  I still requeen to continually improve the genetics in my hives because those young larvae used as supersedure queens came from the queen I purchased.  Then, there's the other half that were accepted over the long haul.

[neillsayers]

Thanks everyone for weighing in. This puts my mind to rest for now. I  figure in about 2 weeks I will know if they were successful. My yard has beaucoup drones right now so its time they earn their keep.

[Knucs]

I have tons of drones as well, good luck Neilsayers.

[apisbees]

About drones, I do to but the bees are getting ready to evict them here.