Author Topic: It's so late in the year... What do I do?  (Read 3165 times)

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Offline CpnObvious

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It's so late in the year... What do I do?
« on: August 14, 2016, 01:01:22 pm »
I went through 6 of my hives yesterday. One of them has clearly been attacked by a mouse or a shrew, or something. There's really no honey in there and they're down to a couple dozen bees, the queen, and a palm-size area of capped brood. A couple of my hives have an insane amount of bees and plenty of brood.

Being this late in the year, do I takes bees and frames of brood from another hive and reduce the decimated hive to a single deep, or do I just let them die off?  Tomorrow will be a perfect day to rework the hives, but would it all be for not?

Please advise,

Thank you everyone!

Offline Perry

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Re: It's so late in the year... What do I do?
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2016, 01:07:16 pm »
Most will tell you to take your losses in the fall, but then I have always been a fan of the underdog and would probably boost them in an attempt to get them through. I am betting I am in the minority on this though.
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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: It's so late in the year... What do I do?
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2016, 01:37:50 pm »
If the queen is laying well??   I might move them to a nuc and give them a frame of capped brood, then feed them and depending on how well they build up and draw comb, either winter them as a nuc, or work them up to at least a double medium the top full of capped syrup, and put winter patties, or a sugar cake on top of them.

   I have quite successfully wintered nucs with sugar on top, as well as double mediums.  If you can pull them through the winter they will explode in the spring.
   In another month, I would call it a loss, Axe the queen and newspaper combine with a hive that needs the strength.
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Offline G3farms

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Re: It's so late in the year... What do I do?
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2016, 02:10:37 pm »
If you like to play and have the time add the caped brood and feed feed feed.

I like to play around and see if they will make it myself. Of course I have a little longer to play than you, our iron weed and golden rod will last until late Oct and sometimes even into Nov.
Bees are bees and do as they please!

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Offline Les

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Re: It's so late in the year... What do I do?
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2016, 03:50:51 pm »
I would go for it and attempt what Lazy says.  You are in a similar geographic area to me, goldenrod and purple loosestrife are still in bloom so they can still forage.  Good luck and let us know how it works out.

Offline apisbees

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Re: It's so late in the year... What do I do?
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2016, 05:11:05 pm »
Pull the plug!!! If the queen had been laying well the hive would not of allowed the mouse in. The mouse never caused the demise of the hive. the demise of the hive is what allowed the mouse to enter.  Look on the bright side if you had SHB in your ares it would be in worse condition. With only a couple of dozen bees left in the hive the brood under the cappings is most likely dead already. Just not enough bees to clean it out.
It looks like CCD has taken this colony and I haven't heard of CCD hives being rescued by throwing a bunch of resources at them.
Perry was wright in saying "take your losses in the fall" forget what he said after that.
I would check the other hives for might counts.
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Offline iddee

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Re: It's so late in the year... What do I do?
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2016, 05:59:39 pm »
Apisbees gets my vote.
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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: It's so late in the year... What do I do?
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2016, 07:22:35 pm »
The choice is yours.. as G3 said, if you want to give them a chance then now is the time. I think it is too early to pull the plug, but DO check to see if that queen is laying.. you said there was some brood in the first post if I remember correctly.. the queen will not lay more than the bees she has can cover. Adding a frame of capped brood will give her the bees she needs to lay. There is enough time for two full rounds of brood, and as stated, you can winter them as a nuc...  FEED them, and use a robbing screen or entrance reducer to keep them from being robbed out.
   Taking a frame of brood from another hive now still gives it time to rebound as well.

   Having said all of that...  I am also going to agree with Apis and Iddee.  In my situation I would not hesitate to pull the plug.  I do not have the time to tinker with them or fuss over them. I would consider it a learning experience. SEE if you can pull them through. I believe it is possible, I have done it in the past, as stated, provided the queen is capable. In a WORST CASE scenario, if October arrives and they have not built up enough to survive the winter in a nuc....  THEN you AXE the queen and combine them with whichever hive you have that is weakest. They will also have stored some of what you fed them, and you can use those frames in your other hives to boost their winter stores.

    It is all a matter of what YOU wish to do, and depends entirely on your situation.   I agree that the MOUSE or whatever the invader was could not have done that to a healthy hive and survived it.   The scenarios are plentiful.. were they weak because they got into SEVEN dust in someones garden? Or are they weak because the queen is sub par?
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Offline CpnObvious

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Re: It's so late in the year... What do I do?
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2016, 11:02:44 pm »
Thank you all for your advice... I basically heard what I expected, but it all gave me a little more to go off.  I'll take another look tomorrow... Maybe I'll try to winter a nuc.  I'll let you know what I officially do.

If I decide to try to save them and I take some frames of brood from other hives, I imagine I should take some bees from other hives, too... I have a couple hives that are just chock full. In doing that, considering I'm adding them to a hive with only a few bees and also because the hives are so close, should I also trap them in for a few days so they accept the new hive as their own?  Also, should I put the queen in a queen cage so they don't try to kill her?

Thanks again!

Offline rwlaw

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Re: It's so late in the year... What do I do?
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2016, 06:44:27 am »
If I remember right Cpn, didn't you have these problems in the spring? It's time to go vermin hunting!!!
If you're going to try to save the queen (apisbees is right, something is very wrong), I'd make up a nuc out of your other hives and introduce the queen after 24hrs.
IMO, your betting on a dead horse. You don't even know if the queen will start laying after giving her what is needed, but I'm here and your there. Observe, adapt and overcome!
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Offline Perry

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Re: It's so late in the year... What do I do?
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2016, 07:12:09 am »
If you decide to go out on a limb and try, wait till mid-day on a warm day and grab a couple frames of bees and brood. Most likely there will be nurse bees on them as the foragers are mostly out working, and they are not as defensive. A bit of 1 to 1 syrup with a few drops of lemongrass oil in it will have everyone smelling the same for long enough to smooth things over.
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Offline lazy shooter

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Re: It's so late in the year... What do I do?
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2016, 08:09:47 am »
If as someone noted, you had a similar situation in the spring, it is time for MOUSE GUARD ENTRIES.  I live in mouse and rat country, but have never had a problem in my hives.  Where my bees are currently located, there is a family of owls near them and they start flying every evening about dusk.  They may be cutting into the rodent population in a big way.

I believe that where you are, there is still time to save this hive.  Like the other Lazy said, "if you get them through the winter they will explode next spring."

lazy

Offline CpnObvious

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Re: It's so late in the year... What do I do?
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2016, 08:12:07 am »
If I remember right Cpn, didn't you have these problems in the spring? It's time to go vermin hunting!!!

Yes, I had an issue with a shrew last spring... Any offerings on how to name them?

Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: It's so late in the year... What do I do?
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2016, 11:24:27 am »
Name a shrew?
  hrm...  lives in the dark and likes it that way, mostly blind....name it?
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