Splitting Two Hives ~ Need Some Counsel

[Jen]

Went thru these two hives two days ago. I was astounded that they were not full of queen cells and ready to swarm, that's what I was prepared for. But this has bought me a couple days to split and avoid the swarm.
 
They both had lots of extra burr comb through out the frames, many frames fused together between the upper and lower levels. The hive on the right did have a couple queen cups being fed by the bees, so queen cells are in the first stages.

Last year I made all my nucs from queen cells from swarmed hives. This year I will split in the next day or two. Haven't done a split and ordered new queens before. I don't know yet how many queens I'll need to order.

Hive Left: One deep, one med. The deep has two frames almost full of capped brood, and one frame about half full. That could be one split right there. Then, the medium on top isn't quite ready to loose three brood frames yet, but soon.

Hive Right: Three meds. Just stuffed with bees. two queen 'cups' the bees are feeding, scraped them off. Cleaned up burr comb. No frames filled up with capped brood yet, but concerned that they are getting ready to build queen cells and swarm in about 3 weeksish. I would say the hive is 80% full of brood, eggs, larvae, stored syrup, pollen. Don't know how to split this... where do I take the frames from.. the top med only? Like, take 3 frames out of the middle of the top med only?

[Mikey N.C.]

Newbee here,  the best scenario that seems to work.As far as what ive read is. Parent Queen and bees are split , with good resources

[neillsayers]

Jen,
Is your plan to create nucs or new hives?

[Some Day]

Jen,

Have you thought about a Taranov Split?

[Jen]

Neil, plan is to prevent swarming and keep only 2 hives. So, I would split into nucs. And whatever nucs don't sell this year, I'll overwinter.

[neillsayers]

I have less experience than you so take this with a grain of salt. The hive that appears to be on the verge of swarm needs intervention. I'd take the queen and 2 frames of mostly capped brood and a frame of stores, move her to the nuc and shake out a couple frames of nurse bees into the nuc. Then super that crowded hive. That ought to break up the swarm impulse. It'll give em a brood break to help with varroa, also. By the time they have a new laying queen they'll have less congestion and some honey put up. Sound reasonable?

[Jen]

Neil, actually I don't have much experience in splitting. My bees, in the past, have swarmed by now. I have much more experience with catching swarms. Trying to avoid all the hiking up the bank and climbing trees these days 

So if I'm going to make a nuc, then I'll need 5 frames in there. Your suggestion is 2 frames of brood, and a frame of stores. Now there is 2 vacancies. I'm thinking 3 frames of brood, a frame of stores, and a frame of pulled comb for the queen to continue to lay in.

In the pic, it's the hive to the right. Do I take those brood frames from all three stacked meds, that would be breaking down the hive. Or, should I take the brood frames from the top only?

The queen cups that they are just starting to feed, are in the middle med.

[yes2matt]

I have a related question:  can you split out the frames with Q cells before they are capped? Or is it better to wait?

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[Jen]

Good question yes2matt! I would like to know that too 

[neillsayers]

 I wouldn't move the cups until they are about 10 days old. That would be capped 2 days or so. If the queen cells are on two frames that's perfect for another split.         
 The hive is less likely to cast a swarm if you move the queen out. Doesn't matter as much where you pull the frames as much as you need to make room. This relieves congestion and makes them "think" they have swarmed. Your idea of three combs capped brood is fine. Just make sure the nuc doesn't get too congested or you're back to catching a swarm.
 I've been studying a bit on Michael Palmer's method of double box nucs for wintering over in Vermont. Sounds like a good idea if the nuc is growing fast and in need of more room.

 Hope this is helpful, I'll be looking for our more experienced beeks to weigh in on this.

[Jen]

Neil, what I'm hoping for is when I pull the frames and make a 5 frame nuc, I'll check back in a week and look at the empty comb frame. When I know queen is laying, I'll sell that nuc pronto. If that plan doesn't work out right away, and the empty comb frame is full, then I'll split into another nuc.

You've been a big help  Thank You!