Nucs!

[Wandering Man]

How does someone keep bees in a nuc?

We did a split in early March, added a new queen and waited until we felt that it was full enough for us to sell.

It seems like just a couple of weeks ago there wasn't much going on.  Then suddenly this week we had three full frames of capped brood and a half a frame of nectar.  We stole a frame of nectar from another hive to give to the nuc, because we were worried there weren't enough stores for the bees.

And just like that, it seemed there was no space left and we needed to sell the nuc quickly or move it into a full box.

We were lucky and had a buyer.  But what about the next one we've got on the assembly line (a recently caught swarm).  Will the bees just slow down production?  Is two frames of stores enough for three frames of brood?  I don't know how to keep a nuc on hold until you sell it, much less how anyone just raises bees in a nuc.

[Lburou]

A reproductive swarm is programmed to build comb, get  the brood nest established and get ready to reproduce again.  So, it will pay big dividends to  feed a swarm and let them build comb as well as build up their population, (but stop feeding before they begin backfilling the broodnest).

In my hobby experience, most NUCs are put together just before sale.  The recipe for making a NUC for sale varies a lot from region to region and person to person.  But, you need a laying queen, brood of all ages, and some stored honey and bee bread for best results.  Weather and honey flow will dictate how much food reserves they will need.

In the spring of the year when nectar and pollen are easily available, hives (read NUCs) can grow rapidly.  Less so later in the year, but splits can still be made and swarms hived with good success, but they may need to be fed if there is no honey flow.  Many beekeepers remove resources from NUCs to keep them from swarming due to lack of space during periods of plenty.

In general, my NUCs take a bit more care because you are trying to run a three ring circus in the space of a camping tent.   HTH   

P.S.  FWIW, I ask the buyer to bring his equipment over and I put the NUC in it and make sure the NUC is established in his equipment (usually new equipment) before he takes it home.  I sell so few that it works well that way.

[iddee]

Remove a frame of capped brood and replace with a frame of foundation. That gives them something to work on and fewer mouths to feed. Do it again as needed.

[Mikey N.C.]

Good post, Wm, good info. Had same situation 5 frame. Nuc that I put swarm cells (capped). April 4th.
Found Queen today . she didn't have long abdomen.
But frames I had put in were back filled, had to scramble to find drawn comb.

[tecumseh]

As we are finding out here (we meaning the folks at the bee lab) do not sell a caught swarm to anyone unless they are your sworn enemy.  This is especially wrong if you sell these to some novice with no experience. This is doubly true (reference back to the 'we') in any area with africanized bees but certainly could apply in a lot of other situations.  Basic biology tell you that the queen in a swarm is older and her mandibular pheromone is in quick decline which mean in a short spell she will be replaced... < for a novice the chances that this will turn out less than positive. Then of course there is the case of absconding swarms which may incorporate a lot of problems no novice beekeeper should face on their first bee hive. 

[tecumseh]

As to the question of the thread... this happens especially if you get no deposit on any kind of bees you sell (queens, nucs, hives).  Folks simply do not seem to realize all this stuff has a shelf life and waiting around for customer to show up takes time away from getting things done.  In prior times (before the time when I found I needed to take deposits) I did as Iddee says above but this also takes time away from other things that need to get done.  I guess in some ways how I did things then is a good example of the economic idea of 'opportunity cost'.

[Wandering Man]

As we are finding out here (we meaning the folks at the bee lab) do not sell a caught swarm to anyone unless they are your sworn enemy.  This is especially wrong if you sell these to some novice with no experience. This is doubly true (reference back to the 'we') in any area with africanized bees but certainly could apply in a lot of other situations.  Basic biology tell you that the queen in a swarm is older and her mandibular pheromone is in quick decline which mean in a short spell she will be replaced... < for a novice the chances that this will turn out less than positive. Then of course there is the case of absconding swarms which may incorporate a lot of problems no novice beekeeper should face on their first bee hive.

We learned that lesson the hard way in our 1st year. We also learned about how long it takes that tame little colony to turn into a monster.

We get a new queen into the colony before it’s been in the nuc for 3 weeks. That’s when they seem to turn mean.

Giving a nuc to my worst enemy without a new queen might be a good idea. But, anyone who’s a beek has got to have some redeeming qualities. So, a worst enemy beek is unlikely.

[tecumseh]

There seem to be this habit here Wandering Man that folks in the bee club that do extraction give their worst acting hive to newcomers.  In one site we found 8 of 11 hives to be africanized (although 16 prior samples of 'aggressive' bees before this turned out to be European). All of these stinkers were given to her by the club's past president.  The person who has the hives (someone I knew from my days as a student at A&M) was certainly hardy in putting up with the stinkers and still seem pretty enthusiastic about beekeeping.  Such behavior however does not in my mind build does not help in building a stronger bee club.  Just sayin..... do try and give these novice beekeeper at least a marginally enjoyable first experience in beekeeping....   
 

[Wandering Man]

I agree.  We want more people promoting beekeeping, not more people afraid of bees.

[LazyBkpr]

Keeping bees in a NUC;

   If you like being active with your bees, a 5 frame nuc is a great way to go.. as they build up you can add another box on top and make it a ten frame nuc...   I have always advocated keeping a few nucs, depending on how many hives you also keep...   Overwintered nucs....  can replace lost hives, or you can use the resources from growing nucs to "fix" hives that have issues.. Requeening the hive with the nuc queen for example, and then let the nuc raise a new queen. Your production hive keeps on rocking and it is the nuc you have snagged the resources from to keep it going. You can let the nuc's draw out new comb for you, and.. if you are a keep that likes tinkering with his bees, a NUC means you need to check it more often to keep it from swarming.. EXTRA frames of brood can go into your production hives or new hives to keep them strong, AND, if your selling a few nucs, you can use the extra bees and brood from your resource nucs to make up nucs to sell.
   I also like to use good strong nucs to draw out my queen cells and cap them.  In the end, having nucs means you dont have to fuss with your production colonies more than necessary, but you STILL get to go out and tinker with your bees!!!

[Wandering Man]

Keeping bees in a NUC;

 Requeening the hive with the nuc queen for example, and then let the nuc raise a new queen. Your production hive keeps on rocking and it is the nuc you have snagged the resources from to keep it going. You can let the nuc's draw out new comb for you, and..
   I also like to use good strong nucs to draw out my queen cells and cap them.  In the end, having nucs means you dont have to fuss with your production colonies more than necessary, but you STILL get to go out and tinker with your bees!!!

I am becoming so envious of you folk living North of Texas.  Keeping a queen raised from your own hive is something I would love to do.  Unfortunately, the queens down here like to hang out with the bad boys, and they usually come home and start producing really aggressive daughters.  Very few beekeepers in Mid to South Texas keep queens that have been mated with feral drones because of the presence of Africanized bees.

[eltalia]

Yeh...catching the bus here.
We pretty much have a couple of 6frm nucs on the go, comes in handy yet
can be a worry in extended dearths as just experienced in the 2018/19
wet season. Management wise we follow that loose ideology Iddee an' others
express but do so with a twist.
Numbers start hanging off landing boards the box gets opened, queen located,
and a rough 150x150mm (6"sq) cage thrown over her for a week or so.
Why I really do not know but just that action that day sees them inside at night
and most clumping cease the next day... s'pose they are cleaning up the mess
 of intrusion.
Whatever... the method is just a hack of the process we used for years in running
single 8/10 FD boxes as pollinators, packed to the rafters with bees.

Bill

[iddee]

What mesh is that cage, Bill?
Do you not have a problem of them removing the wax around it and releasing her?

[eltalia]

What mesh is that cage, Bill?
Do you not have a problem of them removing the wax around it and releasing her?

Not so much a problem as a safe thing for when things go titsup Iddee, on plastic
tho' she could get trapped in...totally.
No mesh as such just a metal rectangle covered one side with mosquito mesh and
owning a 5mm gate for bees to come and go, legs fixed to a similar sized backing
plate set on the opposite face.
We've used the wooden queen cages in the past in leaving a 5mm hole but in my
experience queens sometimes get a little stressed, as you can hear them as you
walk by... and again they cannot be let out if things go awry.

Bill

[iddee]

I would sure like to see a pic of that. It sounds interesting.

[eltalia]

I would sure like to see a pic of that. It sounds interesting.

Knowing there are some others around (online) doing much the same it is
is sounding like this concept may be worth real money, Iddee. Heh

We are in build mode at the moment buuut I'll see what can be done.
Stay tooned.

Bill