Extreme winter survival

[Ray]

HELP (this is shouting )
Would you extreme Northern beeks care to divulge some of your honeybee survival secrets?
It cant be all genetic! This winter I had 2-three deep hives the way U of Minn suggests. I wrapped them in 1 inch Styrofoam leaving the southside clear. There was extra styrofoam on the cover. I had a small upper exit and a small lower exit.  Both hives clean, dry and DEAD! :'( 

Weather forecast is for the coldest temps this year Monday! :'(

My last hive is coming inside with me well NOT but I'm thinking about the garage.

[LazyBkpr]

I doubt if the cold killed them. There had to be another reason, starvation, Mites etc.. that got the best of them WHILE they tried to survive the cold. If they had honey, but did not move to it because of the cold, then that is at least partially genetic. (IMHO)

   We have had temps WAY below normal, A couple times with wind chills of -50 F.
   Moisture raining down on them will do it, but it sounds like you did everything right wintering them. If you had foam on TOP, and an upper vent, then the condensation should not have killed them, so there should be another explanation lurking among their little bodies. 
   Were they stuck in the cells head first when you opened the hives?

[riverbee]

"HELP (this is shouting )"

ray, you picking on me?!...........that's okay jack does it all the time and you can holler

what lazy said, and like he asked, how did you find the cluster, where was the cluster, how large was the cluster.  might be cold starvation or as barbarian would say 'isolation starvation'. might have been mites, or disease, how strong was the colony?  did you have enough frames of bees for a 3 deep hive going into winter?

i have kept the 3 hive configuration......my HO, i went back to double deeps.  did you follow the recommendations of the u of m's guidelines, and winter stores to the letter?

also, what bees are you keeping?

[Perry]

I agree with the above answers. To find out what happened, more info is needed. Three high has never made a difference for me if and when I have done it, in fact, if I have any deeps full of honey heading into winter, I just "store" them on top of any hives I think might use them. (I don't extract deeps).

[Ray]

Kind of Bees? They were Honeybees! They were package bees 2 years ago supposed to be NWC but. I'm fairly sure they both had replaced thier queens. The only thing on the bottom boards (except dead honeybees) was wax colored dust. Nothing that looked like the white mite feces. Both the dead hives had larger clusters than I expected (from what I've read not by experience).


The little pile came of the bottom board the big pile came out of the hive and there are a lot of dead bees still in there. there is 20lbs or so of honey too.

[riverbee]

okay ray, you will still have some bees remaining frozen on the frames where this cluster was, were the frames empty? were there bees with their heads in empty cells?

[tecumseh]

a Ray snip...
Would you extreme Northern beeks care to divulge some of your honeybee survival secrets?

tecumseh...
well I do not qualify but.... take them to east Texas or central Florida.

[Ray]

Confession: didn't follow U of Minn plan exactly . Didn't wrap in BLACK and I didn't bore any inch holes.

The cluster was surrounded by empty cells and in the cluster there were bees head down in the cells. The top bars were clean of black stuff (diarrhea), there was some staining on the outside at the exit.  C:-)The cluster was at the east side of the hive and all the honey was on the west.    And the light comes on

[Bakersdozen]

Confession: didn't follow U of Minn plan exactly . Didn't wrap in BLACK and I didn't bore any inch holes.

The cluster was surrounded by empty cells and in the cluster there were bees head down in the cells. The top bars were clean of black stuff (diarrhea), there was some staining on the outside at the exit.  C:-)The cluster was at the east side of the hive and all the honey was on the west.    And the light comes on

Ray- Are you saying you just answered your own question?

Sorry about your losses.

[riverbee]

ray, were they in the 3rd deep, i am guessing they were?

[Ray]

ray, were they in the 3rd deep, i am guessing they were?

Yup, they were in the top box and there was honey (20+lbs) in the middle box.

[Perry]

Sounds like cold starved. Got caught in an area, exhausted the stores there, and didn't get a break in the weather to shift the cluster. Sad, but it happens.

[litefoot]

Sounds like the bees chimneyed straight up to the third box instead of moving laterally in the second deep. I have a couple of questions: (1) When did you place the third deep on top of the hive? (2) Was the third completely full of honey? If you didn't allow the bees to arrange the honey (with the third deep added) in the fall, then you would have wanted to make sure the third deep was full of honey across the top so they could move side-to-side without hitting any empty frames. But then maybe you already did that.

[Jen]

Good thought litefoot. Even so, when I finally got into my hive last week, I noted honey on all of the frames on the top super. However, I noticed a lot more activity outside the hive a month ago, which alarmed me a bit because it's still so early here in upper Calif.

Learning on this forum how the hive can die the quickest in late winter, I bought some winter patties and they just gobbled them up. I make my own now, and they are still gobbling them up. One a week. I'm glad I did feed them even with out examining the frames. This one and only hive will make a split for me this year.

[tefer2]

What has worked for us the last few years.
Do something to knock the mites down in fall.
Hives full on stores before winter sets in.
Black tar paper wraps with 2 inch polystyrene on top of inner cover.
Inner cover with front vent hole, notch down.
2 inch spacer on top box under inner cover, for emergency candy feeding.


Mike Palmer talks about his methods for wintering.

[LazyBkpr]

What has worked for us the last few years.
Do something to knock the mites down in fall.
Hives full on stores before winter sets in.
Black tar paper wraps with 2 inch polystyrene on top of inner cover.
Inner cover with front vent hole, notch down.
2 inch spacer on top box under inner cover, for emergency candy feeding.

   That is pretty much exactly what I do, the difference is...  You explained it without writing a small book!  Well done.

[Jen]

Ditto!

But I don't mind your small books Lazy 

[tefer2]

My old bee mentor also taught us a tip on getting them ready.
When you have to feed syrup in the fall.
You want to give them a bunch all at once. Not just a small feeder over days and days.
You want them to have so much coming in it creates a storing frenzy. Like a strong flow.
The storing is done quickly and they can spend the rest of their time drying it down and capping.

At Thanksgiving, add your candy bricks for the spring time.
Italian looking bees get two 5lb bricks. Carniolan looking get one 5lb brick.
In March, check to see if Italians have any left.
Check Carniolans to see if they have even touched it.

[Jen]

Hu.... Interesting 

[LazyBkpr]

Jeez Tefer... sounds like your Mentor and mine knew each other. I think Mine was lazier however..  He always used granulated sugar rather than a brick.