Author Topic: Open Feeding Thought (Read 12390 times)

tbonekel · « **on:** March 09, 2014, 09:59:57 pm »

So I'm open feeding right now with an upside down pickle jar about 50-60 feet from the hives and was wondering about something. Does anyone think that open feeding might help the foraging instincts? I know there have been some talk on other sites about feeding at the hive makes for lazy bees. I don't really agree with that, but instinctively, bees don't forage at the hive. Maybe they think it's just a source and they move it to the comb without really thinking about it. And I know there are pros and cons to open feeding, but it seems that it could be seen as this great big flower (that looks like a pickle jar) out in the field and could help the forage tendencies maybe? You know when you get stung on the lip (from another thread), you start to think about meaningful life things.

pistolpete · « **Reply #1 on:** March 10, 2014, 12:15:29 am »

I've been outspoken against open feeding, so there's a bias there. But I don't see how you can make bees lazy. Bees are simply economical in their use of energy and resources. If they have to crawl 4 inches to get at a resource, of course they won't fly two miles. What I find interesting is that bees will ignore syrup in the hive whey there is a good flow going on. Clearly they know what's best for them.

Woody Roberts · « **Reply #2 on:** March 10, 2014, 12:47:58 am »

I open feed some here in the yard. My hives are about 200 yds away. I only feed in the early spring and late fall.
When the spring flow starts the bees won't touch syrup in the yard but some will still take it in the hive. This is one way I can tell the flow is on. Empty cells full of runny necter is a good indication also.

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While I have 1/1 on all my hives I still open feed because the two bee trees nearby don't have. This is the same reason I feed in the fall.

When we get into robbing season I wet the sugar enough to clump and feed in the yard. 10 lb might last two weeks but it gives the wandering bees something to do.

Besides I like watching them eat.

Woody Roberts · « **Reply #3 on:** March 10, 2014, 12:52:26 am »

T bone
I think I didn't answer your question. While I think there are lazy bees most are not. Given something to work they will give their life to it

Lazy or aggressive I believe they are what they are and we can't change that.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #4 on:** March 10, 2014, 01:38:03 am »

i have always been outspoken FOR open feeding so there is a bit of Bias there.. Hehe, sorry pistolpete!

Open feeding this time of year shouldn't cause any problems. I enjoy it a lot. Once it comes time for neighbors to put supers on its a different story.
I doubt bees even consider the "nectar" source as flower or jar, they only know what they get from it. I have not tested different distances, but have not fed closer than about 75 yards. Last summers dearth had robbing in progress on several hives, it was my first real knowledge that the local sources were drying up. I open fed, and within an hour the robbing had mostly stopped. I also added screens and blocks, so I am sure that was part of the deterrent.
Bumble bees, wasps, orchard bees and other bees I cannot name came to those feeders, Probably quite a few of my neighbors bees as well. All were welcome, except the yellow jackets. My trusty stick smashed them as fast as they landed where I could reach them.

riverbee · « **Reply #5 on:** March 10, 2014, 02:39:01 am »

Does anyone think that open feeding might help the foraging instincts? I know there have been some talk on other sites about feeding at the hive makes for lazy bees. I don't really agree with that, but instinctively, bees don't forage at the hive. Maybe they think it's just a source and they move it to the comb without really thinking about it. And I know there are pros and cons to open feeding, but it seems that it could be seen as this great big flower (that looks like a pickle jar) out in the field and could help the forage tendencies maybe? You know when you get stung on the lip (from another thread), you start to think about meaningful life things.

t bone, besides the sting on the lip, is it snowing in texas?.........

1~ bees are natural foragers, they will find your open feed or you can 'train' them to go to a feeder some distance from a hive. having said that bees will take natural nectar over anything you can offer them (ie your pickle jar flower), when there is any kind of a flow on.

2~lazy bees? not to offend anyone but perhaps the talk on other sites ought to consider reading a little more biology of the honey bee. honey bees are far from being lazy. well except maybe the drones......

open feeding. i don't open feed at any time of the year, it's what works for you. i don't open feed because of the problems it creates, especially later in the season, robbing for one, sugar syrup in maybe another keeps honey crop, and i really don't like to feed another beekeepers bees or other insects.....

tecumseh · « **Reply #6 on:** March 10, 2014, 06:30:41 am »

at one time long ago during a time when I ran off with the circus (read large commercial beekeeping firm) we use to pot feed on a massive scale using open topped 55 gallon drums and packing peanuts for floats. sometime open feeding would create a bit of robbing but then again at the improper time of year almost any kind of feeding regime beyond dry sugar would do exactly the same thing.

as far as I could tell at the time the largest negative to open feeding was those that didn't need the feed picked up the largest quantity and those that needed the feed the most often times picked up nothing. of course you could pot feed and several days later redistribute the frames of sugar water which would get you approximate to your end goal but obviously this did take a bit more labor.

tbonekel · « **Reply #7 on:** March 10, 2014, 07:00:02 am »

Good thoughts everybody and clearly open feeding is very debatable one way or the other. One thing I noticed yesterday was that the bees found that jar of sugar water late morning after it being there a couple of days. It wasn't quite the frenzy I was expecting. Not too long after that was when I was in the hives and noticed that a few of the stronger hives had several frames with a lot of uncapped something. I don't know how long it takes for them to place nectar in a cell and dry it out but I don't think it was from that jar. It doesn't really matter but it's that kind of observation of bee behavior that keeps me so interested in this amazing bug!

Perry · « **Reply #8 on:** March 10, 2014, 07:26:50 am »

I don't open feed at all, except in my backyard to clean up buckets, cappings, etc. but I only have one hive there.
I have shut down a couple of my yards because of open feeding within range, especially if it's done in August when I have supers on my hives. Late in the fall it also becomes problematic when medicated syrup is fed this way as well.
Tecumseh brings up a very valid point in that the very hives being targeted for help with open feeding are often the last to benefit from it.
Just my opinion.

apisbees · « **Reply #9 on:** March 10, 2014, 07:34:13 am »

I have never open fed and never will. Why feed thee neighbors bees? If the hive really needs the syrup because of the amount of brood rearing and the weather is cold or raining and the bees can not get out to collect it. More of the syrup is taken and stored by the hives that do not need to be fed and the hives that need the feed gets little.

camero7 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 10, 2014, 08:24:44 am »

I open feed in the fall mostly in my nuc yard. When most of the hives gain the weight I want, I put buckets on the individual hives that are light. Works pretty well.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #11 on:** March 10, 2014, 09:43:44 am »

ONLY disagreement I have is the misconception that once a flow starts bees will STOP taking syrup, or that they prefer natural nectar. Bees NEVER stop taking syrup!!! They will take syrup until the brood nest and every crack and crevice in the hive is packed to the brim with syrup, and they will slowly DIE, or abscond.
According to Michael Palmer bees are like teenage boys. Put a group of them in a room with a buffet and they will eat EVERYTHING!
So I am not alone in this realization. It may have to do with the bees, the weather or time of year, or the location, but MY bees will take syrup from morning to dark just as fast as they can, even during the very best of flows. And when they have no place left to put it they will FIND a place. I have found burr comb UNDER the entrance filled with syrup. Drone comb and even a queen cup filled with syrup.
Feed how you like, but keep an eye on your bees in case they are greedy gluttons like mine.

lazy shooter · « **Reply #12 on:** March 10, 2014, 09:56:57 am »

Does anyone have any concern that open feeding might aid in the spreading of diseases and pests? It seems akin to sitting in the waiting room at the doctor's office, or emergency room of a health care facility.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #13 on:** March 10, 2014, 10:07:14 am »

I don't know enough about how diseases like Nosema are transferred to give a good answer, but I would imagine that mites would readily move from bee to bee in the clusters that form under the feeders. I wouldn't think it would be any worse than those transfered through drift, but interested in reading replies.

apisbees · « **Reply #14 on:** March 10, 2014, 10:33:00 am »

Back when antibiotics were indiscriminately added to the feed syrup. Exposing the syrup to the sunlight caused them to break down much quicker that is why feed jars were put in or covered with an empty super.

Slowmodem · « **Reply #15 on:** March 10, 2014, 10:37:34 am »

Quote from: lazy shooter on March 10, 2014, 09:56:57 am

Does anyone have any concern that open feeding might aid in the spreading of diseases and pests? It seems akin to sitting in the waiting room at the doctor's office, or emergency room of a health care facility.

That's probably true. But nectar sources would act the same way.

tefer2 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 10, 2014, 10:48:14 am »

I open feed in the fall along with internal frame feeders. We like them to pack it in fast so they store it, rather than eat it.
It does take some time to dry it down and get it capped for winter.
Don't want a bunch of open nectar going into the cold spell.
Robber screens are in place before this event too. Everyone has their own idea's on feeding, just like treatments. What works for us, may not work for you!

tbonekel · « **Reply #17 on:** March 11, 2014, 12:55:20 pm »

I have gone back and forth on how I feel about open feeding. Yesterday I saw a lot of fighting going on at the source and there were several buzzing me while I was watching. I went to my local beekeepers meeting last night and there was a speaker that said not to open feed. He said it makes the bees stressed and unhappy. He used the analogy of 1000 people driving to Chick-fil-a all at the same time. You are going to have some upset folks.

At that point, I decided that open feeding is not for me. I saw some of the things happening in my yard that he mentioned. So I'm back at the no open feeding side of the fence. That doesn't mean it's not right. It's just not right for me. If it works for some of you, then that's great!

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #18 on:** March 11, 2014, 03:38:59 pm »

Over 16 years experience with open feeding and I have never heard of the things your talking about T.. please elaborate if you can?

What type of fighting are you talking about?? Watching a bee on one of the wife's plants and seeing another bee pounce on it?? They roll around a minute then both fly off? THAT type of fighting? Or are you talking about all out brawls that leave dead bees like fighting at a hive being robbed?

Woody Roberts · « **Reply #19 on:** March 11, 2014, 03:55:54 pm »

I don't see any serious fighting on open feed. It can be frantic for sure.