Author Topic: How long do I wait on the queen? (Read 10724 times)

litefoot · « **on:** March 16, 2014, 08:28:36 pm »

This is going to sound a bit like an earlier post and I hope the title of the thread is appropriate. Here's the deal. Three of four hives are bringing in prodigious amounts of pollen. Almost every bee coming in those three has baskets bulging with the yellow stuff. The other hive, let's call it the "worrisome" colony, is really active (about like the others), but it isn't bringing in pollen. So my first thought is that it doesn't have any brood yet. I had a little weather window today to inspect the upper and lower deeps and just as I thought, there is no brood and there are no eggs.

Other observations:

1) Bees were covering almost all the frames. It looked like a mid-summer hive in numbers! Among the numbers were some smaller bees.
2) There was quite a bit of honey remaining on the outer frames in the top, but the queen certainly wouldn't be honey bound.
3) I saw a couple of queen cups on the upper half of a couple of frames; nothing more than a small overhang on an existing cell.
4) No drones or drone brood, so no laying workers...yet.
5) Did not find the queen.

I'm assuming that since I don't have laying workers, then the queen's smell is still there and I just didn't find her.

What to do?

1) Be patient and wait for queen some more?
2) Insert pollen patty to stimulate the queen?
3) Watch a People's Court marathon to remind me that I have a pretty good life?

iddee · « **Reply #1 on:** March 16, 2014, 08:38:46 pm »

Add eggs from one of the other 3....... Then check in a week. If no queen cells, dump them on the ground and put the hive away. Let them find a home.

G3farms · « **Reply #2 on:** March 16, 2014, 11:26:47 pm »

That's what I would do. Add a frame of "eggs", not just larva or capped cells.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #3 on:** March 16, 2014, 11:44:19 pm »

Quote from: iddee on March 16, 2014, 08:38:46 pm

Add eggs from one of the other 3....... Then check in a week. If no queen cells, dump them on the ground and put the hive away. Let them find a home.

I agree too...
Recent knowledge here... reading up on laying workers after reading an earlier post.. The idea is to do it twice if there are laying workers..
By the way, there is not usually ONE laying worker, there are a LOT of laying workers.. a laying workers ovaries can make one or two eggs a day.. so in order to get two, three, ... seven eggs in a cell there are more workers putting eggs in there..
The idea, is to put brood in with them. The smell of the brood represses the laying workers tendency to lay, but they may NOT make queen cells with the introduction of the first brood comb, which is why you wait a couple of weeks, allowing for the brood that is emerging to get well under way then add another frame.. IF the first brood comb suppressed the laying workers, the bees will then make queen cells.. If they do NOT make cells at this point... as said.. shake them out...

I learned exactly as Iddee said, and thats what I do.. I will try it the way posted next time, IF, I have the time and spare brood to do it. You have to measure your own time and the WORTH of the struggle for a 30 to 40% success rate.. Since I have not yet tried this, let us know how it works if you do!

litefoot · « **Reply #4 on:** March 18, 2014, 08:18:41 pm »

Okay, thanks everyone. I had been thinking that adding eggs was my next option, but I'm still waiting on a warm day to be able to do it. Now what about the problem of no drones this early in the season if or when they raise a new queen?

tbonekel · « **Reply #5 on:** March 18, 2014, 10:15:24 pm »

Quote from: iddee on March 16, 2014, 08:38:46 pm

Add eggs from one of the other 3....... Then check in a week. If no queen cells, dump them on the ground and put the hive away. Let them find a home.

How would this compare to combining 2 hives? Obviously, if they make queen cells, you want to leave them to see if a good queen comes out of it, but if not, why wouldn't he combine? I did that a few weeks ago with a queenless hive. It would have been a lot easier just to dump them on the ground.

apisbees · « **Reply #6 on:** March 19, 2014, 03:08:50 pm »

Lite foot if you do not have drones in the queen right colony I would be concerned about the queen getting mated. it takes longer for drones to mature to the point of being ready to mate so you should see a healthy drone population in the hive before attempting to have the bees raise a queen. if you don't have drones in the area to mate with, or if you can not buy a queen that was raised in the earlier weather of the south. combine with a weaker colony where the bees can assist the colony in raising more brood and then split the colony when a queen can be mated or bought. Put the bees to work before there population starts to dwindle and you have nothing left.

iddee · « **Reply #7 on:** March 19, 2014, 03:16:39 pm »

Tbone, you can combine as long as there are no laying workers. Either way will work.

Apis, Bells, Texas has drones. If not in his hives, then in his neighbors.

apisbees · « **Reply #8 on:** March 19, 2014, 04:02:59 pm »

But I am not to sure about Lightfoot that is in Utah who,s question we are providing answers to.

iddee · « **Reply #9 on:** March 19, 2014, 04:05:49 pm »

OOPS. My goof. I was thinking tbone. Oldtimer's disease setting in.

apisbees · « **Reply #10 on:** March 19, 2014, 04:16:56 pm »

That's what I thought. Location has such an effect on whether the advise is good or not or even irrelevant to the discussion. I know I have no drones or not enough to think about mating yet and from the weather forecasts for across the country I would be surprised if he did. But I am to far removed to say for sure so I started by putting the word IF in there. For such a little word it can have a huge influence on the course that need to be taken.

litefoot · « **Reply #11 on:** March 19, 2014, 07:19:14 pm »

It's supposed to get into the lower 60's tomorrow, so I'm going to 1) try again to find the queen...maybe she is slow and 2) check the other 3 colonies for drones. My guess is that I won't find either the queen or any drones this early in northern Utah, so I guess my choices are to buy another queen or combine. I'll report back after I take a look.

Woody Roberts · « **Reply #12 on:** March 19, 2014, 08:26:46 pm »

I have never had any luck with queens that are raised too early, whatever that means. Here in SW MO I wouldent even think of trying to raise a queen. I haven't seen a drone yet and just saw eggs in drone cells last week. We're probably 6 to 8 weeks away from queen rearing time.

I've never had laying workers. Probably because I'm a little quick on the trigger when it comes to combining or shaking out.

apisbees · « **Reply #13 on:** March 21, 2014, 06:16:55 pm »

Early queens to replace failed queens can some times be raised in questionable conditions and bad cold weather resulting in a higher failure rate. If the bees can be utilized to strengthen a weaker coloniy now so it will become a strong colony that can be split latter, when queens are more readily available and local and cheaper.

litefoot · « **Reply #14 on:** March 25, 2014, 01:39:13 am »

Update here. Finally got a chance to look at a couple of the other hives and when I split the top and bottom deeps on one, I ripped open some bridging comb that had some well-advanced drone pupae. So if the ones I didn't rip open hatch in another week, then they'll be ready to mate a week later. And if I introduce eggs into my queenless colony, then hopefully I'll have a queen hatching about the same time as the drones are ready. So tomorrow, I'm going to try to find some eggs to introduce...if the weather cooperates.

litefoot · « **Reply #15 on:** March 25, 2014, 10:37:03 pm »

Well, I went to my strongest hive from last year to get eggs and found eggs and I found drones running around!!

Woohoo! This colony was incredible last year and it already has 7 full frames of capped brood...both sides. Amazing! I wanted to report about introducing the eggs into the queenless hive and I'm excited about getting that done, but the work this queen has done in the other hive just took my breath away. Wish my queenless girls luck.

Forgot to mention that, in addition to the eggs, I added a frame of pollen to the queenless hive as well.

Jen · « **Reply #16 on:** March 25, 2014, 10:41:09 pm »

Enjoying your excitment Litefoot! The forum is getting some very interesting stories of late

it's the season

Yankee11 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 25, 2014, 11:07:40 pm »

how old does a drone have to be to mate? A week?

litefoot · « **Reply #18 on:** March 26, 2014, 12:00:41 am »

Quote from: Yankee11 on March 25, 2014, 11:07:40 pm

how old does a drone have to be to mate? A week?

Yes, Yankee, I think it's a week after they emerge.

apisbees · « **Reply #19 on:** March 26, 2014, 01:16:25 pm »

From egg to the drone being of the age to mate is about 45 days. So about 20 days after they emerge according to queen breeding by Laidlaw. You want to have drones emerged in the hive before starting to raise queens.