I'll try it one more time, no there will be dissension in the ranks but its what works for me.

[barry42001]

Much has been said about the inability to control swarming, that it is a naturally occurring process during times of abundance, and the sign of a healthy colony. Absolutely true, but there are factors that contribute to swarming, well known factors that are easily remedied. Will you stop swarming 100 percent of the time? Absolutely not! Swarming can occur for any one of a number of reasons including  an absconding swarm. But there are things that you can do to greatly reduce swarming, it's a matter of how much time and effort you want to put into it. Some will say why bother stopping it,  it's free bees. and that's certainly true.
What you as a beekeeper have to decide, is what you want out of the beekeeping. Are you simply raising bees to do who knows what with, or is there a plan? There are no if ands or buts about it, a colony that has a intact workforce ( as in did not swarm ) will generate so much more honey than one that has been allowed to swarm once or more times. Further, the hives that are established as a result of the swarms will in all probability not provide you with honey the year they were established, in fact you will wind up having to feed them to get them through the winter (in all probability). If all you're looking to do is have hives to look at, to generate more of the same hives that look so pretty ( trust me I do like my bees ), then allowing them to swarm is just fine. What I try to do, and take some pride in doing it, is having bees accomplish a goal for me, and in accomplishing my goal, it guarantees their survival through the winter, and I'm able to harvest enough honey, beyond that which I would use for the house. More importantly, it make sure that the bees will have what they need. Trust me, I'm not trying to urinate on anybody's Wheaties. At the end of the day we will all do what we like with regards to be management. Lordy, those of you that know me  know that I have had a rough row to hoe over the last three years, so this is just the rambling of the newly re establishing beekeeper.

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[Perry]

Good points! 

Barry also wins the prize for starting the thread with the longest title! 

[barry42001]

Lol thanks Perry, atleast I can be famous for something lol

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[iddee]

OK, so how do we go about preventing them from swarming?

[barry42001]

swarming is caused by a number of reasons, the first thing you can do is make sure they have adequate space for laying eggs, adequate space to store nectar and pollen. adequate space for the population as it expands to have clustering space inside the hive. making sure you have a relatively young queen in the hive. 2 brood chambers proper frame manipulation to open up the brood nest so that the Queen has space and the cells are not back filled with nectar. upper entrance is so that field bees can bypass the brood chambers. and that way you will avoid congestion in the brood chambers.
as young queen will have a strong queen pheromones, as a queen ages, her phenomenon levels decrease, this will trigger either supersedure cells, or swarm cells if the old queen isn't failing. will this prevents warming one hundred percent of the time- no, will it greatly reduce it absolutely.

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[tbonekel]

I got in to all of my hives this afternoon and inserted a foundationless frame in the middle of brood area in each hive. I'm interested to see how fast they draw out those frames.

In regards to keeping hives from swarming, there is only one hive that I want to try to keep from swarming. This is one with an amazing queen and I want to keep her busy because I want to split this hive and try to keep those genetics. It's not that I don't care about the rest, I will do what I can to keep them from swarming, but right now, I just want to get enough honey for myself, family and friends and to sell a little. That is my goal for the year. If I can do that, the year has been a success. I would like to have enough hives that if a few swarm, I will have others to keep up with my demand.

[barry42001]

But you see there's the rub. any hives that  swarms, its honey production will have to drop, there is a break in the brood cycle, this might be good to combat Varroa, but honey production is based on math. every 21 days roughly thereabouts a new batch of young bees come on the scene assuming the queen is laying of the capacity, the general number that is bantered about it is 2500 eggs a day I think the numbers a little lower than that but working with that number the hive will not have a single egg being laid for about 2 to 3 weeks, and then another 21 days before the first worker hatches out, another week or so until it takes up foraging duties.. and there goes your honey harvest. just some food for thought

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[tbonekel]

Yes, I completely agree with you. That's why I would like to have enough hives to pick up the slack if one swarms. If a person has two hives and is wanting some honey then right in the middle of a flow, one hive swarms, then that person is hit with a big drop in production. On the other hand, if a person has 10 hives and 3 swarm, then the production is hit, but not near as hard. It really comes down to how much honey you need to produce. When I first began, if I saw any swarm cells, I would get rid of them. I don't do that anymore. I have read that the bees may be preparing to supersede or they may already be queenless. It's just hard to tell. The bottom line is I don't think there is any guaranteed method to keep from swarming so you just do the best you can and if they swarm, you just thank the good Lord that you still have some bees and go on. 

[iddee]

tbone, removing queen cells will NOT prevent swarming. They will swarm anyway and leave the hive queenless. Removing enough frames and bees to make a nuc with the cells, or with the queen, will help to ensure having a queen. Destroying queen cells is the best way I know to kill a hive.

[barry42001]

by the time you see  capped  queen cells too late either swarmed or will in short order

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[Crofter]

  I had queen cells started last summer during some of our cold wet spells. These bees will shut down laying if no nectar / pollen coming in and perhaps resulting reduction of pheremones makes some bees decide she is not doing her job. Some cells got torn down again and didn't swarm. I think it was tec. that explained this cause of possible swarming.

  Wax foundation after a few years use gets to have quite a few holes, nooks, and crannies for queen cells to be hidden in and you have to shake each frame clean of bees if catching queen cells is your main pre swarm warning.

  As of a week ago it looks like all of my eight hives are alive but spring is a long way off here yet. I put together another 10 deep boxes and frames anyways in case I have to make some splits, though I dont really want to up my hive count. To my mind that seems the easiest swarm prevention.

  I have also built 2 Snelgrove division boards to play with as swarm control with good honey production under one roof. Basically a split housed on top of the mother hive. A few of other hives I think I will try the Demarree method so have to order some more excluders.

  For certain the bees will put a lot more swarming pressure on me this year than last year where I split and requeened all but one hive. Had one of those splits swarm in September but caught it. That one puzzles me still.

Will see how it plays out but no guarantees!

[pistolpete]

 "every 21 days roughly thereabouts a new batch of young bees come on the scene assuming the queen is laying of the capacity, the general number that is bantered about it is 2500 eggs a day I think the numbers a little lower than that but working with that number the hive will not have a single egg being laid for about 2 to 3 weeks, and then another 21 days before the first worker hatches out, another week or so until it takes up foraging duties.. and there goes your honey harvest. just some food for thought"

HERE GOES THE DISSENSION:  young bees don't appear every 21 days, rather 2000 new ones appear every single day.  The eggs laid by the last queen will continue to hatch out for another 3 weeks while the new queen is maturing.   So the real brood break is just the 3 weeks, not 6 weeks as you suggest.    Also I don't much buy into the theory that an interruption is brood rearing does anything to re-set the Varroa numbers.   With our long winters we have a 4 month interruption in brood rearing every year and come spring the mites are right back.   When there is no brood, the mites are perfectly happy to suck on adult bees and wait for brood to re-appear.

Here goes the agreement:   I also think that good bee management includes a big effort to prevent swarms.  I would add another reason (other than loss of honey production) to the list of why swarm prevention is important.   A good proportion of bees are kept in fairly densely populated areas.  The swarms end up colonising walls and attics, causing property damage and removal costs for your neighbours.   I would also add another  swarm prevention method:  the artificial swarm.  When you find swarm cells in the hive, find the old queen and move her to a new hive along with a good proportion of the bees and a bit of brood.  The bees will think they have swarmed and continue to raise the new queen.

[barry42001]

pistolpete, prior to the emergence of the swarm, the old queen has to lighten up, and stops laying eggs for a good five seven days prior to leaving. so while yes you are right that between 2000 to 2500 bees a day will be emerging. there will be a point in time that all the eggs will have hatched the larvae will have matured and pupae. but for that 5 to 7 days when she has stop laying eggs there will be no new eggs. so there is a break in the brood.

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[Woody Roberts]

Barry
As you say there are many factors that cause a hive to swarm. The main one being that's what they want to do. Before they can they have to prepare. I try not to let them finish their preparations.

I won't raise a queen before the blackberries bloom and the flow will already be on. I constantly keep some empty frames in the broodnest so it stays open.

I raise most of my queens in the fall so plenty of room and an open broodnest is all they need as a general rule.

Any queen I have over or near a year old goes in a nuc with 3 frames of bees when the blackberries bloom. The work force has already been built by this time. The main hive will still gather a good crop while raising a good queen plus some cells for mating nucs. The old queen will build to a double deep by fall if I don't rob brood off her.

The main hive is not prone to swarm with a brand new queen and the flow tapering off.

This works for me. I think it's very near what you do.