Author Topic: Bees not pulling on new wood/wax frames  (Read 18026 times)

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Offline riverbee

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Re: Bees not pulling on new wood/wax frames
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2014, 08:47:20 pm »
"This is Crazy! I've been switching out plastic frames with new wood and wax frames for the last 6 weeks or so. The bees are wandering around on them, but no pulled wax, no business whatsoever!"

"it might be simply a matter of Bees of the right age"

"Just watch what that swarm will do to them!!"

"to draw foundation you need a combination of a good honey flow and a lack of existing comb to store that nectar.   Chances are pretty good this time of year they are using everything that comes in and have lots of empty cells to store any surplus.  Once they run out of room they will start drawing comb."

"This is my mother hive, the one the swarm just left from. There were plenty of bees of all ages from the last 6 weeks"

"there is more to swarming than simply running out of room.  There is a long list of variable that one need to think about when it comes to swarming"

***************************************************************
jen,  just catching up, and also read your swarmed hive thread.....

like iddee, i don't cut any swarm cells, i leave them bee.....or utilize them in a nuc.

my humble two cents about why your bees weren't drawing wax?  they were in swarm mode. tecumseh said it best really, there is more to swarming.
swarming preps  starts taking place several weeks before lift off.  they are not going to be interested in drawing comb. they are preparing to swarm. they are going to leave. lots of activities take place or cease prior to a swarm issuing, like lack of foraging, bees restless and 'wandering around on the comb'. queen cells. also the queen is slimmed down so that she can fly, bees engorge themselves for their new home, and off they go. more complex than that.  so a clue as to why your bees were not drawing out the comb...

age of the bee to draw wax, very young bees;  i think between age 12 and 20 days.

the feeding you did probably helped them if they were short on stores but also escalated the swarming, especially if they were congested , ran out of room on combs, and ran out of space above.

typically bees will draw foundation with a good honey flow on, lots of young bees in the hive at this time in the spring of the year, this really is the best time to utilize the bees to draw comb. i find that the bees will draw foundation well, after i have divided them (to keep them from swarming) and before the main flow,  so they get back to normal business, like drawing comb . what g3 said, swarms draw comb very well, their honey stomachs are full, and lots of young bees to draw wax to store what they brought with them.  even when it's your own hive.  :D
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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: Bees not pulling on new wood/wax frames
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2014, 10:54:05 pm »
Come on guys really?
   Your going to leave six or eight swarm cells in a hive?
   She doesnt want more hives or nuc's, and she doesnt want more swarms.. I leaned a long time ago that six or eight swarm cells will very often cause after swarms, and have seen it happen first hand.
   I agree that the bees know best, except when they have three, four, or six queens emerging. I have seen an afterswarm with only TWO queen cells in a hive...   It was always my belief that the queens would fight, one would die, and all would be well, but that isn't the way it always works.
   Your giving advice to someone that does not have four or six hives, she has two, she only wants two. I try to give her the best advice I can putting myself in her shoes. I honestly feel that the conflicting advice is not doing her any favors. Nor is it geared toward her situation, circumstances, purpose or means.
   If I had swarm cells I would make as many nuc's as I had cells, but thats not in her plans.

   I can take a hit on my beliefs, and in fact appreciate them, because it makes me learn, but I don't feel the advice given for this situation measures up.

   I have a lot to get done, so I am going to take a break for a while.  I'll talk to yall when I get back, I hope Spring finds you well prepared and your hives strong!
   Scott
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Offline apisbees

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Re: Bees not pulling on new wood/wax frames
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2014, 10:19:48 am »
Also temperature will effect the building of comb
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Offline iddee

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Re: Bees not pulling on new wood/wax frames
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2014, 10:37:40 am »
Lazy, we normally give conflicting advice in beekeeping. It give members a choice. She is not the only one that will be reading these posts. No one said you were wrong, just gave another way to do it. As you've said before, we all have our way of beekeeping and we share those ways. The reader takes all of them, mixes well, adds his/her own, and then has the recipe that works for them.
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Offline Ziffa

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Re: Bees not pulling on new wood/wax frames
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2014, 11:08:26 am »
Will a hive swarm itself to death?  I mean, would a hive produce so many after-swarms the the numbers would be so reduced the original hive would perish? 

Just a curiosity question this thread engendered.  I had never considered that.

I like all the different answers.  I'm sort of in between Jen and ya'll so it is interesting to hear the different thoughts.  And I somehow reckon Jen is fiery enough to figure out which advice she wants to follow ;).

Thanks all!

love,
ziffa
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Offline brooksbeefarm

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Re: Bees not pulling on new wood/wax frames
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2014, 11:18:46 am »
When i find swarm cells the first thing i do is look for the queen, and if they have not already swarmed and i find her she goes in a nuc.(they will not leave without a queen) I will leave two swarm cells and make nucs with the others, they may go ahead and swarm when the new queen hatches, but if you reduce there work force making up nucs i have found they are less likely to swarm. The way i look at it, at lease i kept most of the hives work force and gained more hives to keep or sale, so the only thing i lost is the honey crop i was going to lose anyway. So thats the way i do it. :P Jack  :laugh:

Offline Riverrat

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Re: Bees not pulling on new wood/wax frames
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2014, 11:51:32 am »
Will a hive swarm itself to death?  I mean, would a hive produce so many after-swarms the the numbers would be so reduced the original hive would perish? 

Just a curiosity question this thread engendered.  I had never considered that.


Yes it is possible for a hive to swarm itself to death under the right conditions.
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Offline barry42001

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Re: Bees not pulling on new wood/wax frames
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2014, 12:33:54 pm »
remember the survival of hive is a matter of numbers. if you have a series of after swarms that will deplete the population of the hive changing its status from a strong colony, to a weak or mediocre colony, headed by a Virgin Queen, the numbers are working against you. how long does it take for a queen to get mated, how long after that before she lays the first egg. 21 days later the first bees come on to the scene that's quite a bit of time in a bees life. by the time the first of the new bees are able to forage, the dying off of the older forages will be well in progress. also you will probably be into that period of time in the summer, when resources are becoming harder and harder to find. so the short answer is yes you can after swarm colony to death, for the reasons mentioned.

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« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 12:34:55 pm by barry42001 »
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Offline Ziffa

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Re: Bees not pulling on new wood/wax frames
« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2014, 01:31:29 pm »
I had never considered that.  It definitely puts a new light on swarm management.

Thanks all!

love,
ziffa
"There's a spoonful of honey where your heart should be. . ." - The Wood Brothers - Honey Jar.

Offline Jen

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Re: Bees not pulling on new wood/wax frames
« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2014, 02:47:15 pm »
Ziffa, I hadn't concidered it either. But now that I look back to last year, I can easily see how a 'swarm to death' can happen.
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Offline apisbees

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Re: Bees not pulling on new wood/wax frames
« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2014, 04:32:04 pm »
it can even be the time a swarm is issued, to late in the year the swarm hasn't the time needed to build up for winter, and the hive that the bees swarmed from could miss out on brood production of the needed winter bees for the colony to survive.
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Offline Jen

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Re: Bees not pulling on new wood/wax frames
« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2014, 04:48:57 pm »
Scott - ""Your going to leave six or eight swarm cells in a hive?
   She doesnt want more hives or nuc's, and she doesnt want more swarms.. I learned a long time ago that six or eight swarm cells will  very often cause after sYour giving advice to someone that does not have four or six hives, she has two, she only wants two. I try to give her the best advice I can putting myself in her shoes. I honestly feel that the conflicting advice is not doing her any favors. Nor is it geared toward her situation, circumstances, purpose or means.warms, and have seen it happen first hand.""

Thank You Scott, you are a gentleman and a scholar!  ;) 8)
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Offline iddee

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Re: Bees not pulling on new wood/wax frames
« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2014, 05:50:23 pm »
""Thank You Scott, you are a gentleman and a scholar!""

And your generosity is exceeded only by your good looks and your grand personality.

 :P ;D :D :D
“Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me... Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”
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Offline barry42001

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Re: Bees not pulling on new wood/wax frames
« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2014, 06:42:42 pm »
Lol
nothing Snide here

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Offline GLOCK

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Re: Bees not pulling on new wood/wax frames
« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2014, 08:41:19 am »
What you should do if you only want 2 hives is get two nucs and right as your main flow gets going good pull your queens and put her in the nuc with a frame or two of brood and bees  and some stores. Then wait like 2 weeks and open your hives and kill all QCs  then wait another 2 weeks and put her back . I pull all my queens like that in my DBL. deeps but I let the DBL. deeps requeen themselves  and the nucs I let grow in two new hives works for me . I had no swarms out of 10 DBL. deeps last year doing this and got a pile of honey .
If your bees are swarming your not going to get much honey you need to learn some SPM {swarm prevention management}https://agdev.anr.udel.edu/maarec/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Swarm_Prev_Control_PM.pdf

Swarming ~ Control Maarec

And I mean that in the most nicest way. good luck.
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Offline iddee

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Re: Bees not pulling on new wood/wax frames
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2014, 09:00:10 am »
Glock, I think you need to do a bit more math. Pull the queen today and the bees make queen cells from larva that are in day 3 or 4. Wait 2 weeks, or 14 days, and the cell is at day 17 or 18. The queen emerged on day 16.
“Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me... Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”
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Offline GLOCK

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Re: Bees not pulling on new wood/wax frames
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2014, 09:06:03 am »
You are right I don't know what I was thinking sorry.
I was thinking from the day the egg was laid 14 days.
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Offline Jen

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Re: Bees not pulling on new wood/wax frames
« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2014, 01:39:46 pm »

Glock ""If your bees are swarming your not going to get much honey you need to learn some SPM {swarm prevention management}https://agdev.anr.udel.edu/maarec/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Swarm_Prev_Control_PM.pdf
And I mean that in the most nicest way. good luck.""

Thanks Glock, you are always a gentleman  :)  Ironically I was learning about swarm prevention.. nucs.. splitting n'such all winter, and was re-reading up on it last week... but the bees were ahead of me! So far all is well, and we have some mediums built now in case of after swarms.
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Offline riverbee

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Re: Bees not pulling on new wood/wax frames
« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2014, 06:13:17 pm »
jen,
more articles on swarm management here, you may have read them, post #1:

Swarming & Swarm Management
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Offline Jen

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Re: Bees not pulling on new wood/wax frames
« Reply #39 on: March 20, 2014, 07:07:39 pm »
Thanks Riv-  ;) 8)
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