Virgin Queen and excluders

[Jen]

Would a virgin queen be able to slip through a queen excluder?

[barry42001]

I have never observed it, but then I've never tried to stop it. I know virgin queens are a bit slimmer, then fully mated laying queens so to me the answer would seem yes.

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[DLMKA]

Do yourself a favor and forget you have a queen excluder. Hide it in the garage somewhere.

[robo]

Would a virgin queen be able to slip through a queen excluder?

Laying queens can get through excluders if they are determined.    Virgin queens are much more capable and likely to go through.   A virgin queen wonders around the hive for days while she hardens up.   They tend to be very runny and cover lots of ground.  She is not releasing any pheromones and is pretty much ignored by the other bees.    Here is a picture of one to give you a comparison of her size to a worker bee.   it should be quite evident that she can go through an excluder without much effort.


Rob...

[apisbees]

My question is why do you want to know? or better yet where and why do you want to place it. eventually the queen needs to mate.

[Woody Roberts]

Do yourself a favor and forget you have a queen excluder. Hide it in the garage somewhere.

Everyone has an opinion on excluders. I'm in this camp.

[camero7]

Most can get through but I've had a couple get caught in one and die.

[LazyBkpr]

Do yourself a favor and forget you have a queen excluder. Hide it in the garage somewhere.

  I'm in the opposite camp. I like having one or two about in case I need to use them. One of the most useful pieces of equipment ever invented. Once in a while I will actually even use one between supers and brood boxes!!!

   I have read that virgin queens can fit through an excluder, but have never had one actually go through an excluder to my knowledge. Finding a queen using a shaker box (Super with an excluder under it) has never failed..  I would think in their panic, if they COULD fit through they would certainly try?
   Maybe the type of excluder makes a difference?
   Mine are the all metal welded wire style.

[Woody Roberts]

I have one also and I occasionly use it but not on a regular basis

[barry42001]

once I have to brood chambers of brood, I always use excluders to keep the Queen out of extracting supers never had a issue with...never. if its a strong flow the bees will not hesitate to cross the excluder and draw put the foundation in the super. of course as always I provide upper entrances can provide the field force the ability to bypass the brood chamber.

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[Perry]

I don't use them till the bees tell me to (by moving into my honey supers with brood). When that happens I move the queen down and add an excluder.

[brooksbeefarm]

Don't throw those excluders away, send them to me. They are a must to me when i put my shallow comb honey supers on. To many times i've had beautiful snow white comb honey started only to have the queen start laying in it and the workers track the rest of it, when there was a empty brood box on the bottomboard.I've also had drone brood on the bottoms of snow white comb honey frames when i have a excluder on?? My old buddy said when you have honey supers on under the comb honey super the queens pheromone is weak or gone and will cause a laying worker?? I'll keep my excluders and throw my inner covers away, to me they are just another place for shb to hide, i went to migratory lids and have less shb problems. Yes, i have seen virgin queens go through an excluder, but then there are are different sizes of virgin queens. JMHO. Jack

[Slowmodem]

If I remember right, I've heard that it might help a swarm stay in the hive if you place a queen excluder under the box (but above the bottom) so that the workers can go in and out, but the queen will stay home.

[Jen]

Nice thread here!

This year, obviously, it's my year to learn more about swarming. If I want to make sure that I got the queen in the swarm that I gathered, I like this method so far:

Building upward - bottom board, q excluder, medium, q excluder, medium, lid. This way I can dump the swarm into the top medium, put the lid on, wait a couple of hours or so. When the bees go thru the q excluder I can spot the queen... or not. Because it's a swarm and the bees are in swarm mode, I like to keep them nestled in this set up for 24 hrs-ish. I also add a frame of brood to the bottom box and incentive for the bees to go below.

With this last swarm, I saw and captured the queen. I put her into the bucket with the rest. Later in the evening, we lightly sprayed sugar syrup on the bees and piece by piece drew out all the debri that came with the swarm. I'll be goll darned is we could not find the queen. Hence, my question of if she could have gone thru the q excluder.

[riverbee]

yes she could have jen, i have had virgins slip through the excluder. i use the wood bound ones. like robo said also, they tend to run across the comb a lot, hide, and are ignored by the bees, and can be difficult sometimes to spot.  it's also possible she took flight when you went through the box to find her.  sure you didn't want to hear that....but that's possible as well.  keep us posted if and when you find her. she's probably in there.

[Jen]

Thanks Riv