Author Topic: Jen's Continuing Swarm Saga (Read 15985 times)

Jen · « **on:** March 30, 2014, 11:50:54 pm »

We started out today getting the second swarm hive set up with a small batch of brood from the mother hive. It was cold today, under 50, so I had to work fast. All the wooden/wax frames had just a little pulled wax on them, no go. Pulled one of the plastic frames with the insert, surgical insert had some brood, Bingo! (and 4 more queen cells!) Off to the garage for surgery. Cut the brood out of the insert, rubberbanded it to a medium put it into the second swarm box, Done. Took the plastic frame back to the mother hive and reinserted it.

But, before all of this procedure... When I got back to the garage with the brood frame, I propped the frame up against the hive for a few minutes while I turned and washed my hands in the sink and got the knife. When I turned back to start cutting out the brood there was a queen walking along the top bar of the frame.. Wow! my heart took a leap. I had a jar handy so I scooped her up in my hand and put her in the jar.

Hubby and son come home, I'm at the front door with my jarred queen and a big grin. They follow me to the garage while I'm telling my story, and Lo and Behold! there is another queen walking along the edge of the hive lid. WOW! my heart take another leap! I grabbed another jar (I have lots of jars cause I make lotion you see) and put her in the jar. I showed these queens to my son, Scott 31 years old, cause he has never seen a queen. About one minute later, he says 'Hey Mom! is this a queen in the window?' ~ Third queen goes into a jar. Hubby and I are Dumbfounded, Hubby says "This is just Crazy!"

SO! The second swarm hive, of which we've named Mama Cast after Cass Elliot of 'The Mamas and the Papas', is out with the rest of the hives. And I'm left with 3 queens that I haven't got the vaguest idea what to do with ~

PS. They didn't take any syrup this afternoon, I figured they would be starving ??

Cutting out small section of brood from insert

Insert rubberbanded into medium frame

Note three queen cells to the left, they all hatched within 5 minutes

Three virgin queens ~ What do I do with these queens?

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #1 on:** March 31, 2014, 12:02:20 am »

often, it is "warder" bees keeping the queens in their cells waiting for the right moment.. opening the hive and removing the frame disturbed them/removed them, so the queens came rolling out.
Glad they didnt become more swarms!!!

Gypsi · « **Reply #2 on:** March 31, 2014, 12:12:17 am »

If you were in Texas Jen I would help you out with those surplus queens, I have plenty of drones.

pistolpete · « **Reply #3 on:** March 31, 2014, 12:13:41 am »

Usually you need to have 5 or 6 attendant bees to feed the queen, but Ièm not sure if that also goes for virgin ones. You might want to set them up in two frame mating nucs.

Jen · « **Reply #4 on:** March 31, 2014, 12:18:08 am »

Scott ""often, it is "warder" bees keeping the queens in their cells waiting for the right moment.. opening the hive and removing the frame disturbed them/removed them, so the queens came rolling out. Glad they didnt become more swarms!!!""

Interesting bit of info here Scott. But when I pulled the frame out I noticed the queen cells right away, I could have sworn that the cells were tightly capped. AND, I did here piping, it was soo wonderful

Gypsy- ""If you were in Texas Jen I would help you out with those surplus queens, I have plenty of drones""

I have a good supply of drones as well. My situation now is how to keep these queens alive?

jb63 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 31, 2014, 12:19:46 am »

What Pete said.If your short on equipment you can put two dividers in to make three three frame colonies.

Jen · « **Reply #6 on:** March 31, 2014, 12:24:14 am »

Pistol- ""You might want to set them up in two frame mating nucs""

jp- ""What Pete said. If your short on equipment you can put two dividers in to make three three frame colonies.""

I have no idea what you are talking about

I would need a pictorial or vid

apisbees · « **Reply #7 on:** March 31, 2014, 12:52:43 am »

To late for these ones but take a super and build 3 dividers to separate a super into 4 sections give each section it's own entrance on a different side of the box. stock each section with a cup full of bees and a virgin queen or queen cell. The divider, bottom, and cover, have to be bee tight so the bees and queen can not move from compartment to compartment.

Jen · « **Reply #8 on:** March 31, 2014, 12:59:29 am »

Hi Apis! I'm one tired bee mommy

What do you mean it's too late for these ones? are they going to die?

apisbees · « **Reply #9 on:** March 31, 2014, 02:42:42 am »

They need to be fed by workers and if you had not rescued them they would have killed each other with only one surviving or issued more cast swarms.
Enough with the swarming already. those darn girls decided to make more queen cells. That happens some times.

barry42001 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 31, 2014, 03:10:08 am »

under normal circumstances the first hatched queen would either have left with the first after swarm and the second emerging queen would have wiped out the rest of the queen cells or the first emerging queen would have wiped out the rest of the queen cells and then she would have the colony to her self. well it's not uncommon for a colony to after swim itself to death that doesn't necessarily make it either common or desirable. Jen, you've got some decisions to make. what are your ultimate goals for your bees. do you want to make honey or do you want to make bees, because you can't make both, if you make bees plan on feeding them all winter long, if you want to make honey you must keep your workforce intact. I'm sure you've seen posts, that have said there is no doubt about it a colony that has the swarmed repeatedly, will gather a fraction of the honey of one that did not. so you do have to make a decision, you either have a working colony or a bunch of pets colonies.

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apisbees · « **Reply #11 on:** March 31, 2014, 03:23:39 am »

Great point Barry She has spent the last 2 years making pet colonies this year she is after honey.

apisbees · « **Reply #12 on:** March 31, 2014, 03:45:39 am »

Ok this is what I think has happened. Due to timing and what you have said. The first swarm left and was rehived. You culled all but 2 cells in parent colony. Cells hatched and 2 queens became one after battle or misted a cast swarm. The bees in parent colony still insisting on swarming raised a bunch more cells. So the cast swarm left with one of the 2 cells you left in the hive. I hope that you left one of the cells or a virgin escaped from a cell before you collected them out of the #1 hive.
To check for eggs a wait few days for the cast swarm. give the mother colony 2 weeks for a queen to mate and start laying.

Perry · « **Reply #13 on:** March 31, 2014, 07:06:05 am »

Quote from: Jen on March 31, 2014, 12:24:14 am

Pistol- ""You might want to set them up in two frame mating nucs""

jp- ""What Pete said. If your short on equipment you can put two dividers in to make three three frame colonies.""

I have no idea what you are talking about I would need a pictorial or vid

Something like this Jen. I took an old deep, divided it into 4 two frame mating nucs. I keep one in each larger yard and when I come across a hive that has started swarm preps, I take the queen and some brood, make up a 5 frame nuc, and then divide any other frames with queen cells into these 2 frame compartments and let them raise some queens for me. There is a separate entrance on each side for each compartment.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #14 on:** March 31, 2014, 08:57:42 am »

Quote from: apisbees on March 31, 2014, 03:45:39 am

Ok this is what I think has happened. Due to timing and what you have said. The first swarm left and was rehived. You culled all but 2 cells in parent colony. Cells hatched and 2 queens became one after battle or misted a cast swarm. The bees in parent colony still insisting on swarming raised a bunch more cells. So the cast swarm left with one of the 2 cells you left in the hive. I hope that you left one of the cells or a virgin escaped from a cell before you collected them out of the #1 hive.
To check for eggs a wait few days for the cast swarm. give the mother colony 2 weeks for a queen to mate and start laying.

Excellent point there Apis.

As far as queens feeding themselves;
Michael Palmer and many others will tell you that queens are fully capable of feeding themselves. I have pulled the egg rockers from my incubator and put queens in it in the wooden cages. A drop of honey every couple of days, and humidifying the incubator kept them perfectly happy for nearly a week until I was ready for them. It was a pain, and a queen bank would have been nicer, but it pulled me out of a tight spot.

Jen · « **Reply #15 on:** March 31, 2014, 03:10:02 pm »

This is the Mama Cast swarm in the upper medium. Since this pic, we have place her outside with the other two hives. My question is: This swarm went into two mediums. It seems like a lot of bees to me to fit into one medium, so I kept it in two mediums, both will be brood boxes. Should I let them draw out one medium at a time?

What do you think?

barry42001 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 31, 2014, 03:31:10 pm »

yes otherwise they'll simply strip patches of wax off of the foundation.
the rule is when they have 7 frames: of foundation pulled, add the second. another clue is when you start seeing wax on the top bars

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riverbee · « **Reply #17 on:** March 31, 2014, 04:55:55 pm »

"This swarm went into two mediums. It seems like a lot of bees to me to fit into one medium, so I kept it in two mediums, both will be brood boxes. Should I let them draw out one medium at a time?"

yes jen, keep them in two mediums (equal to 1 deep). feed them syrup to help them draw foundation. you don't want them getting congested in a medium box.

ps, swarm bees will have engorged honey stomachs and they will be drawing and filling cells with what they have.

Jen · « **Reply #18 on:** March 31, 2014, 04:58:08 pm »

Thanks guys! I was thinking so, just making sure.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #19 on:** March 31, 2014, 06:10:24 pm »

A ten frame medium is a little larger than a 5 frame deep nuc. This is just one of the reasons I like mediums. Having said that, I have to pay attention to a new colony in a single medium, because the bees will often have six or seven frames well underway in a weeks time.
A smaller space is advantageous in that they can keep the temps regulated with less bees and raise brood easier. Starting a package in a ten frame deep compared to a nuc will often result in the nuc building up a faster. A ten frame medium is an intermediate size. More room than a 5 frame deep nuc, but not as much as a ten frame deep.
I start with a ten frame medium with package bees, but have to keep a close eye on them, because they will often draw and fill it within a few days. At which point I need to add another.

The determining factor is drawn comb. If all the frames in a ten frame medium are NEW frames with no comb, I start with one box. The difference is, that when they hit five or six frames drawn you need to add another. With deeps, you have a little more leeway.
If you have a lot of bees, two mediums is probably not a problem, just watch them to make sure the older bees are not dying off faster than they are replaced with new brood/bees. It has been a while since I had to start with no drawn comb. I usually start with at least five frames of drawn in a ten frame medium. Within five days I will be adding a second box.
Temperature makes a difference too. If your temps are warm they will need less bees to cover developing brood..
Just keep an eye on them. In spring I do inspections every seven days.. contrary to what most recommend.

Author Topic: Jen's Continuing Swarm Saga (Read 15985 times)

Gypsi