Question about a split

[Yankee11]

OK, I checked a hive in a out yard today on 300 acres of clover. I want this hive as a Honey producer but it very crowded and is starting to think about swarming.




There is about 7 frames of brood in the top box. 2 full frames of drone on the outside. There is also brood in the bottom box. I found Swarm cups on the edges of several frames. I checked a couple and found a egg in one of the 3 I checked.

Heres my question- According to Mel Disselkoen, I can pull the queen and 2 frames of brood from this hive and they will still make Honey, (the flow is barely just starting here).  They will not miss 2 frames of brood, and they have a lot of brood to hatch still. I do not want to loose this queen. Does this sound like a good plan for this hive.

Also, they have built the queen cups along the edges of comb where they would be easy to harvest once capped.

I could probably make about 6 nucs with this hive, but I really don't wanna break this one down like that.

What do ya think?

[LazyBkpr]

WOO HAA!!!   Good that your paying attention!!
   Looking at that hive and reading about it....  I would do just about exactly what you mentioned.
   As strong as it looks and sounds I wouldn't hesitate to pull three frames of brood.  A frame of pollen and a frame of honey and put them in a box with the old queen. Do it before they get far along and with a little luck, head off swarming completely. If they are really booming I might even pull an extra frame or two and give them empties to begin filling, but empties will cut into the honey production.
   Interested to read other replies!   Its that time of year!

[Woody Roberts]

Any queen I have that wasn't born in the fall I do exactly what you describe.
You can give the queen an extra frame and as soon as she gets that nuc full take a frame of capped brood to pay the hive back.

Two frames takes her a little bit to build up. With four frames you can't hardly rob brood off fast enough.
This gives you the best of both worlds. Your big hive won't swarm with no queen/ new queen and your old queen it still contributing brood to it.

About the end of the flow stop taking brood and your old queen will fill a single deep and be in good shape to go into winter.

I would only leave two cells in the hive once their capped but if you make a bunch of nucs it will hurt your honey production. All depends on what you want.

Woody Roberts

[tbonekel]

Hey, Yankee, that sounds great! But I have to ask. What flow are you talking about. I'm southwest of you here in Texas and don't think anything is flowing yet, but I don't know. How do you know when there is a flow on? My bees are still taking syrup. The only way I know to be sure of a flow is to not feed and then see fresh nectar in the comb.

[Woody Roberts]

How do you tell when there's a flow on? Now right there is a good question. I have a couple methods but I would be really interested in hearing other people's methods.

I suspect there's lots of them.
For me
I don't have a lot of dandilions here but when I see them I know the flow is near. My early big flow happens when the poisen hemlock blooms. My bees don't work it but they work something else at the same time. I can't ever find them so I suspect it's trees. There's a lot of honey locust here. Not the producer black locust is but maybe that's what they work. I dunno.

The first thing I look for is white wax. There's always some corners of frames they didn't get drawn last year. There will be a noticeable reduction in syrup intake in most hives but not all. Some hives will take syrup in a heavy flow.
I'll stop open feeding and feeding my established hives. If they keep putting on nectar then I know.

My favorite indicator is the bees. Their always busy but when the flow is on they have a purpose. They come out of the hive like they were shot out of a machine gun. Coming back in their not carrying pollen but a good many will undershoot the landing board. Their not accustomed to the extra weight.

[iddee]

I would do as you are thinking with the queen, then pull 4 or 5 frame nucs from other hives and put queen cells from that hive in them when they are capped.

[Yankee11]

Ok Thanks, This will be my 3rd hive I have had to remove queen from, I have 3 to 4 more just like this one. I found queen cells in one Sunday that had royal jelly and larvae in them. All these queens are gonna be breeders. Made it through winter great and have really built up quick.

I figure with just seeing 1 egg today that I may have a week. I will probably pull her this weekend, can't take a chance on loosing her. That picture was taken today at noon, sunny and 70 degrees. I don't know where all of the foragers stay at night.  This hive has not been fed sugar syrup.

Funny thing is I found the queen today but had to go back to truck to get nuc box. Came back and could not find her on the frame.

I also saw drones flying in and out of front entrance.

As far as flow, a lot of bees coming in without pollen and I saw quiet a bit of shiny nectar in the frames. Dandelions and fruit trees are i full bloom. Peach, plum, apple etc.

[Yankee11]

Yea, Iddee, thats what I was thinking, lust harvest all the qcells but 2 and put them in nucs made from other hives.

If Mel is correct, this hive should make a huge crop of honey, That a lot of bees bringing in nectar and no larva to feed for a while.

[tbonekel]

Well, now I'm getting excited! Dandy's have been blooming here for about a month. We got hit with a late freeze and the fruit trees suffered a little, but those that bloomed have just about finished and are starting to show tiny little traces of fruit. I use internal feeders and they were dry this past Saturday so I went ahead and filled them. I hope that's the last time for a while. I will check in a few days and see if they have emptied them again. Thanks for the good info.

[brooksbeefarm]

Last Sunday when i inspected 15 hives all but the 2 dead outs had half or a full frame of uncapped fresh nectar? The only thing that is budding and blooming is Willows, Maples,Henbit,and Dead nettle, with the cold weather we've had i don't know how they had enough flying time to gather that much? Jack

[Woody Roberts]

The sugar intake from my open feeder has dropped drasticly the last couple days.

[brooksbeefarm]

I haven't fed anything yet, all my hives have plenty of stores to get them through. Three of the hives i inspected had a extra med. super full of honey i could have taken off, thought i would leave it on and make nucs with them later. Jack