Wax ON! Wax Off!

[LazyBkpr]

   Now.. Mrs River and Jack are likely to be at each others throat.. with Perry standing in the back with a long stick poking both  of them every so often...  BUT....


   I built some wired wax foundation yesterday..   In the stuff I bought, were the frames and about 300 sheets of foundation..   
   So I have used wax foundation in the past, and have been relatively impressed. The bees seem to draw it just as well as making their own natural comb.
   So Since I have the stuff, why not assemble them and have them ready??
   I built ten frames. Wood frames with wax foundation, with wires run vertical. Grooved bottom bar and wedge top bar.  Pretty simple right?


   Oh My God !
   I have about 300 pieces of wax foundation for sale.
   NO WONDER people decide to quit beekeeping!  I can make my foundation-less frames from scratch in the same amount of time it took me to get the frames built and wax installed.
   To make it worse.. whoever these frames were from didn't make the side bars exactly the same, so SOME of the wax sheets were tight, and that made them want to warp and bow, so I had to trim them so they would hang straight. I stabbed myself a dozen times trying to bend the little wires to a 90 degree angle to go under the wedge.. until I figured out to use a pair of pliers...   and the list could go on for a while here....
   With a goal of 50 (ish) hives, and 25 ( ish) nuc's I will have somewhere in the neighborhood of 3000 frames..   I can guarantee after assembling only 10 wired wax frames that mine will be foundation-less or stinky plastic!!!
   I am not putting down wired wax foundation at all, I am only disgruntled with the vast amount of time it takes. So if you use it, and have more than ten hives...
    I am impressed by your fortitude!  What are your tricks to putting the wax INTO the frames?

[blueblood]

Well, I agree, that seems like a ton of time that a spaz like me can't sit long enough to do.  I used "N" style frames and foundation through Kellys but I didn't pin them in, they bowed on the 1,2 and 9, 10 positions.  I now use rite cell.  Easy and fast.

[apisbees]

Lazy I know the frustration of tying to put wax in frames when the wax is the wrong size. It seems that every different type of frame uses a different depth of foundation. Get the right size for the frame and the foundation installation is easy. The foundation that they made to be used in frames with the 2 piece bottom bars is about 1/8 inch longer than the foundation for the slotted bottom bar.

[riverbee]

"Mrs River and Jack are likely to be at each others throat.. with Perry standing in the back with a long stick poking both  of them every so often...  BUT...."

LOL!........another convert.....
fortitude is right, especially when you have a lot of hives or like to spend the winter assembling them. i do love beeswax foundation. most of my honey supers have them and as they give out, they are replaced with waxed foundation.

you might be able to sell them to jack!

[Slowmodem]

I feel like I'm the lazy beekeeper.  I order a box of plastic frames, open the box, throw the frames in the super, done.  easy peasy.

[Jen]

Scott - ""I can guarantee after assembling only 10 wired wax frames that mine will be foundation-less or stinky plastic!!!""

Plastic? For LazyBkper? Over My Dead Body!

See, when hubby and our friend went to Dadant earlier this year, the floor salesman new what to match with what, so in our case all went smoothly. But yes it is time consuming. In our shop/garage we have ready a thick ham sandwich, potato chips, and pop a beer. Turn on tv, find a football game, or a good old movie, maybe some Andy Griffith shows, and just work at leasure.

I am intrigued with foundationless frames tho. Will prob work that way as time goes by.

[Jen]

Slow- I would do plasticell before any more plastic frames. I'm just on a bent to keep the hives as natural as possible. Just me. Plastic frames don't even smell good inside the hive. P U

[iddee]

I bid .25 per sheet if they are deeps, .20 if mediums. Will take them all and pay freight. Anyone want to out bid me?

[LazyBkpr]

Apparently the fellow I bought them from had the same problem with them...

   


  3/4 of the frames I pulled, deeps and mediums looked like this one.

  the ten i built;



   For me, its easier to drop a couple foundation-less in between plastic..  as they start getting the foundation-less drawn I pull the plastic and replace with empty foundation-less.. I use the side support pins in the supers and theres no worry or fuss.  After cleaning a couple hundred wax moth destroyed foundations with wire I have also come to dislike the struggle to remove the wires. I have a 5 gallon bucket filled with wire and am only half done cleaning the frames...
   I can attest to the fact that the bees really like the beeswax foundation, but am also going to attest to the fact that LazyBkpr doesn't like wired beeswax foundation...

[Woody Roberts]

Since I'm mostly foundationless I see some wonky comb. But a good bit of my wonky comb is on foundation that looks just like yours.


When it comes to foundation my mind is made up. There's no need to confuse me with the facts!

[LazyBkpr]

LOL Woody

[iddee]

Playing baseball with a golf club would probably make you unhappy as well.

Get slotted bottom frames that go with the wax and put plastic in the grooved bottom frames and you might like them both.

[LazyBkpr]

Hadn't considered that Iddee. A lot of the frames are slotted bottom bars. as I clean them up I will separate them and see how a few of those go.  Thanks!

[Dunkel]

That's the thing I was so mad about when my hives  were stolen back in November.  Bad enough to have to replace the equipment, but assembling  80 frames of foundation and getting it pulled, kept me pissed for quite some time.  Glad to get them back , I was disheartened for a couple of months.

[Jen]

Scott- ""I can attest to the fact that the bees really like the beeswax foundation, but am also going to attest to the fact that LazyBkpr doesn't like wired beeswax foundation...""

Excepted!    This is my first season with wired wax, we'll see how it goes ~ 

[G3farms]

If you have frames that are already assembled with the grooved bottom bar, set up a couple of stops on the table saw and cut them open. Wax foundation really needs to "hang free" (think commando), it will "grow" slightly as it warms up and the bees start to pull comb.

[tbonekel]

I use the side support pins in the supers and theres no worry or fuss. 

I'm not sure that I am familiar with that. Could you explain support pins?

[LazyBkpr]

they are little metal or plastic pins that slide into the holes in the side bars. they are meant to hold was foundation straight, but as the bees build comb around them they add strength to the sides of the frames.

   http://www.mannlakeltd.com/beekeeping-supplies/category/page26.html

   right near the bottom of the page

[Jen]

G- ""If you have frames that are already assembled with the grooved bottom bar, set up a couple of stops on the table saw and cut them open. Wax foundation really needs to "hang free" (think commando), it will "grow" slightly as it warms up and the bees start to pull comb.""

Ya got me to thinking about that... so I went out and swayed and moved the wired wax frame back and forth. Yep! Definately 'cammando' 

[LazyBkpr]

That would certainly make installation a LOT easier. Once I get a hundred or so frames separated as I clean them I will take them up to the shop and give them a try. That would take about 70% of the frustration out of the task and I may even get along well.
   In looking at the frames that are warped like the one in the picture.. yeah, almost every one of them is a solid bottom bar. Makes perfect sense once Iddee and G pointed it out.