Author Topic: Pole Bucket Idea (Read 11319 times)

tbonekel · « **on:** April 13, 2014, 09:14:50 am »

I was thinking about a pole bucket for swarms. I don't have one yet, but would like to have one ready, if and when the time comes. I was wondering about using the top rails for chain link fencing. Those have a tapered end so you can stack them. After a while they might get pretty heavy, but I know that one length is 10' and it's pretty manageable. I wish they came in shorter lengths so I could take it apart and then keep it in the bed of my pickup. Anyone use this stuff?

Perry · « **Reply #1 on:** April 13, 2014, 09:21:54 am »

No but it sounds like a good idea. I had a swarm land about 40' up in a tree, and a guy used a 40' piece of irrigation pipe with a bucket on it to catch it.

It can be done.

electroman277 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 13, 2014, 09:24:53 am »

Great idea. I think if you could get access to a pole the power people use to reset fuses would be perfect. Just a guess here though.

G3farms · « **Reply #3 on:** April 13, 2014, 11:35:48 am »

I have been using a grade rod (think survey equipment) with the bucket duct taped to the end, extends out to 25' in 5' sections. Nice and handy, short enough the stick in the truck and light enough to handle, but plenty sturdy for a bucket and swarm.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #4 on:** April 13, 2014, 12:54:18 pm »

Quote from: G3farms on April 13, 2014, 11:35:48 am

I have been using a grade rod (think survey equipment) with the bucket duct taped to the end, extends out to 25' in 5' sections. Nice and handy, short enough the stick in the truck and light enough to handle, but plenty sturdy for a bucket and swarm.

Theres my vote right there!!

Short lengths so you can lower it down.. IE 5' per section... I was just imagining having a 25' pole and trying to lower it to the ground with 4 lbs of bees in the bucket..... With the 5 foot sections you could lower it that 5' at a time removing each section...
I sort of cheat.. I have two lengths of pvc that go on my bee vac that are trimmed to 8' each so with me holding it I can reach 20+ feet up with my feet planted on the ground..

Lburou · « **Reply #5 on:** April 13, 2014, 01:04:39 pm »

We use a 20' piece of top rail to get swarms. A small crow bar is taped to the end and it is used to shake the branch. JPthebeeman does something like this on youtube. I put a sheet on the ground under the swarm with a box in the middle of it. Takes several shakes, but has been successful for me. Pictures at my Club website: Here.

Slowmodem · « **Reply #6 on:** April 13, 2014, 03:54:34 pm »

Quote from: LazyBkpr on April 13, 2014, 12:54:18 pm

I sort of cheat.. I have two lengths of pvc that go on my bee vac that are trimmed to 8' each so with me holding it I can reach 20+ feet up with my feet planted on the ground..

Ooo! That sounds like a good idea. I'll have to dust off my shop vac and make a contraption.

Got a picture(s)?

Intheswamp · « **Reply #7 on:** April 13, 2014, 07:18:24 pm »

The thing that I've found with using a pole bucket is that you want to get the pole down quickly and dump the bees before too many of them start flying. Using a segmented pole to bump the cluster into a bucket sound good. But, using the segments to lower the bucket seems like would take a few minutes and it seems to me that too many bees would take flight due to the delay in dumping. G3, do you lower the bucket by releasing the sections or do you tilt the pole over and dump?

What I do is bump the cluster into the bucket, maybe 2-3 bumps...then I loosen my right/lower hand grip a bit and let the pole slide downward/backward, at the same time lowering my left/upper hand to allow the bucket to tilt forward and downward towards the box. By the time I'm dumping the bees there is a good bit of the pole behind me and the lowered fulcrum point makes the pole more manageable. This is a quick motion and while I'm lowering the bucket down it's kind of like the "going down" elevator effect and most of the bees inside stay put until I start dumping. This is probably how a lot of people use the pole bucket.

Perry....40'!!!!!!!!! Ok, where's the video??? That's a *long* way up!!!! You know that videos are mandatory...right?

I'm guessing my pole bucket is about 16' long...if it was much longer than this I don't know if I could handle it...ok, call me a wimp. Past 20' high I'd probably be working on something along the lines of something that Lburou mentioned....something to knock them out of the tree onto a sheet or something else that could be rigged up to be soft.

The pole bucket just seems *to me* to be about the most gentle method of swarm retrieval other than hand shaking them into a box positioned right beneath the cluster or placing a hive entrance right up against the cluster and letting them march inside. The pole bucket is a very simple and quick project that works great...that is, if it will reach the bees!

Ed

G3farms · « **Reply #8 on:** April 13, 2014, 10:10:16 pm »

Just let a couple of the sections down and then it is very manageable.

I like to take the pole saw along also, it has a cutter on the end with a pull rope. Good to trim limbs out of the way. Have used a shotgun to trim a very high limb at the house but probably not a good idea around city folks.

Intheswamp · « **Reply #9 on:** April 14, 2014, 12:49:37 am »

I've thought of the shotgun idea, though haven't tried it yet....probably should limit it to rural areas, but the locals in town probably wouldn't have a problem if I give them a head'sup about it.

The grade rod sounds good but I just at the price of a 25-footer, since I'd have no other use for it other than getting swarms...I'll hold off for now.

A pole saw sounds interesting, but in the bees current love of the privet hedge I'm not sure how it'd work on the small limbs. Do they cut small branches pretty good?....the 1/2" to 1" sizes?

Thanks for the feedback!
Ed

Barbarian · « **Reply #10 on:** April 14, 2014, 04:26:27 am »

I can endorse Lazy's comments.

I have come across a keep with a bee vac who used lengths of plastic downspout to extend to collect swarms from high in trees.

tbonekel · « **Reply #11 on:** April 14, 2014, 07:50:43 am »

So if you use a bee vac for some "lengthy" sucking, you need to adjust the suction power, right? Is there a way to test that before using it on bees or do you just have to "best guess"? Also on the use of a bee vac on location, has anyone used a battery operated hand vac on the collection box instead of the electric? I know the suction would be different, but that might be handy in remote areas. Maybe you could make a collection box with two separate lids, one with electric and one with battery operated, then switch them out as necessary.

G3farms · « **Reply #12 on:** April 14, 2014, 08:31:10 am »

@ Ed, yes the pole saw I got from the big box store has a hook with a cutter on it, pull the rope to operate the cutter, works great on small limbs up to maybe 1 1/2". Yep the grade rod is expensive but I do use it for work also, company policy says all things can be used for bees!

@ tbone, you can adjust the vac pressure on the ground. I have vac up several swarms and you have to be extra careful not to clog up the hose. Might even think about a converter for the car too, turn DC into AC.

Lburou · « **Reply #13 on:** April 14, 2014, 08:33:13 am »

tbone,

Your success or failure with that pole bucket will depend largely on whether the queen is in the bucket or not. No queen, and the bees tend go back to where she is now or where she left pheromone before you disturbed them.

As to suction, I adjust the vacuum to where it will gently pull my loose shirt, not firmly pull the shirt into the tube, (hope that makes sense). The least suction possible is easiest on the bees. Too little and the bees clump in the hose and stop air flow. Too much and it tears on the bees. I think it was G3farms' video using his robovac on youtube that led me to beekeepingforums.com and now to www.worldwidebeekeeping.

HTH

G3farms · « **Reply #14 on:** April 14, 2014, 08:51:30 am »

@ Lburou, Glad you got something from an ol' country boy making a video.

Here is the cutter, works like a charm.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #15 on:** April 14, 2014, 09:37:54 am »

Suction will have to be adjusted as Lburou said. If you think things are progressing NICELY then you have too much suction. Keep reducing the suction until your mind says.. OMG! This is going to take forever!!! There, that is the calibration point and perfect setting.
Using a smaller tube/hole at the tip will often increase vac at that point without increasing the velocity of the bees once they get inside. IE; a cone with a 1" hole that fits on your 2" hose. It sucks up the bees a little easier without increasing speed in the 2" tubing.

Intheswamp · « **Reply #16 on:** April 14, 2014, 10:41:58 am »

Barbarian, using gutter downspout is interesting....large cross-section, lightweight, rigid...

G3, which pole saw is do you have...Fiskars? I've seen a remark or two that the extension lock-nuts can get wear on them and stop holding good. Had any problem with yours? I'm interested in one of these... As for equipment useage being ok'd for bee use...you've got a good boss.

Ya'll are more experienced than I am at this and I'm not disputing the success of using a vac to harvest a swarm but a bucket just seems "better" to me.

I can see where using a vac on a swarm located in a pedestrian/populated area might work well, but even with the vac you'll still have flying bees. If the cluster can be reached with a vac it seems like it could be reached with a bucket. While a vac is still harvesting bees (and it is a slow process), a bucket gets most of the bees in the box on the first dump...and most likely the queen. I have no scientific data on this

but from eyeballing I'd say between 80-90% of the bees end up dumped in the box on the first bumping. Bees start fanning on top of the frames and around the edges of the box almost immediately.

It is interesting that I've found that fanning bees don't always signify that the queen is inside. I've had bees fanning like crazy only to make a subsequent dump that contained the queen. Maybe the bees themselves have such a strong scent of the queen on them that when they are placed in the confines of a box the strong queen scent tricks them into thinking she's in there?

I know that the recent swarms that I've hived have had a very pleasant lemon scent to them that must be fairly strong smelling being as I don't have a very good "smeller"

Anyhow, after the first dump there are flying bees that begin to orient on the hive. The reclustering of bees on the swarm spot creates successively smaller clusters that are simply bumped into the bucket again and dumped into the hive/box. Once the knot of bees on the limb has gotten small (fist to double fist size) I put the cover on and the porch becomes a "fanning porch". I will wait a while and give this knot of bees a final bump and pour them out at the entrance. Usually, I'll leave the hivebox open until dark and the rest of the bees will be inside by dark at which time I'll seal it up and move it to the beeyard. With a vacuum pulling bees into a sealed container how do the flying/orienting(?) bees get inside? Once vacuuming is over with is the box opened to allow the flying bees to enter?

Again, I'm not dismissing using a vac on swarms...apparently many successful beekeepers are using them...I'm just throwing my thoughts out there...hopefully they're worth *at least* what you paid for them.

Ed

G3farms · « **Reply #17 on:** April 14, 2014, 11:46:51 am »

Yes I believe mine are the fiskars, got them at home depot, extends out to 15 feet I think. Not had any problems but then again only got them last year. The saw blade is EXTRA SHARP, be careful with it. As for the extension lock nut still works good so far.

A pole and bucket will not always be the trick for getting a swarm, what about on the side of a building? Now is the time for the bee vac.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #18 on:** April 14, 2014, 07:30:10 pm »

I often have problems with a LOT of limbs in the way. Getting a bucket there is a problem, while a slim tube can be wiggled through to them.
With a lot of branches in the way, using the bucket truck or a ladder is also out of the question unless you want to do a lot of cutting and trimming on the way up. G already mentioned the building, but there is also the chance of swarms on larger branches that resist bumping, and in one case had a swarm clustered between a chain link fence and the chain link gate for the entrance.. That was a mess... thank goodness for bee vacs.
Having said that.. if I can use a bucket. then I agree 100%, it is the faster and easier method.

Intheswamp · « **Reply #19 on:** April 14, 2014, 08:06:21 pm »

Lazy, you're right about swarms on immovable objects posing a problem for a pole bucket. There are times for different tools as no one tool can do it all and there are times for different techniques, even for the immovable objects.

tbone, sorry for taking the thread on a tangent, back to the regularly scheduled program....

Ed