Author Topic: Bee Pasture (Read 8810 times)

LazyBkpr · « **on:** April 13, 2014, 09:34:10 pm »

I have been thinking about this for a long time. When mentioned.. Everyone has said.. "It's not worth it, don't do it."

So I let it drop for the most part...
Laying in bed annoying the wife with crinkly pages of old bee culture magazines.. this one happened to be the Feb 2012 issue on page 15, an article by Kim Flottum about Ball Rebook volume 1 & 2 it specifically states...
Twenty acres, planted with the right crops and managed correctly can support almost 200 colonies, produce several harvestable crops for additional income, improve the land.... etc, etc....
So the idea is back in my head...
Large bales of good quality forage sell for 100 - 120 dollars each. Lets just say I can make $70.00 each on them.
With two cuttings from my land I can easily produce 200 large round bales. probably closer to 240, but we will say 200 to make it easy.. thats $14000.00
Of course, that requires the equipment. Tractor, mower, rake, Baler.. I have the tractor and mower, so I need a rake and a round baler.
So wondering how many colonies 40 acres will support if planted in Alsike Clover, White clover, Sweet clover and Sainfoin. could even sew in a goodly variety of wild flowers. With Raspebrries, and mulberry trees along the fencerows, with multi flower rose all along the crick bottoms and a few apple and cherry trees added in for good measure.
Is anyone aware of any studies done?
The hay alone is worth more than I currently make on cash rent.
So thinking about the two hundred available acres at this site. In bee forage that would translate into about a thousand bales. Even at only $50.00 per bale, and if only cut twice a year to allow GOOD bloom... two hundred colonies would be excessively supported, provide a decent income from hay sales, and allow for more income with honey/nuc/queen sales..
What do you think?

yes, its raining and I am bored.

Jen · « **Reply #1 on:** April 13, 2014, 09:43:50 pm »

I say go for it! But I recall you mentioning that you only have 20 bee seasons left, so if I was you I would start planting before breakfast in the morning, and don't forget the vinyard that's going in on the back forty as well ~~ just sayin

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #2 on:** April 13, 2014, 10:07:47 pm »

well this is sort of my way of getting OUT of doing grapes.. the pruning and trimming and picking and sorting and spraying and the hassle of trying to sell them on short notice. Besides the area she wanted to plant in grapes would be required to place hives

Jen · « **Reply #3 on:** April 13, 2014, 10:10:41 pm »

Oooooooh, there is a method to our madness, I see...

Boykins · « **Reply #4 on:** April 13, 2014, 10:20:02 pm »

My experience with clover as hay is, not very good. It is very hard to get baled in good condition. But if you do, horse owners love it.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #5 on:** April 13, 2014, 10:30:03 pm »

four years ago my fields were clover and timothy.. I dont recall having any problems bailing it.
The white clover doesnt grow tall like the red, the sweet or the Sainfoin but it does tend to fill in spots the other stuff doesnt grow much.
The problem with horse people is that they don't like high energy hay like alfafa and clover as much as they like a good grass mix. The clover also gets a fungus on it that causes horses to drool a lot which they don't like. Cows don't care much, which is where most of it will go.

Slowmodem · « **Reply #6 on:** April 13, 2014, 10:37:35 pm »

Quote from: LazyBkpr on April 13, 2014, 10:30:03 pm

four years ago my fields were clover and timothy.. I dont recall having any problems bailing it.
The white clover doesnt grow tall like the red, the sweet or the Sainfoin but it does tend to fill in spots the other stuff doesnt grow much.
The problem with horse people is that they don't like high energy hay like alfafa and clover as much as they like a good grass mix. The clover also gets a fungus on it that causes horses to drool a lot which they don't like. Cows don't care much, which is where most of it will go.

Does white and yellow clover come back every year like dutch clover, or do you have to replant it every year or two?

barry42001 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 13, 2014, 11:28:34 pm »

Am planting white dutch clover and red clover, and a patch of buckwheat. Just to see

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barry42001 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 13, 2014, 11:29:38 pm »

White and yellow sweet clover come back every year.

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LazyBkpr · « **Reply #9 on:** April 13, 2014, 11:44:35 pm »

Yes it does come back but will slowly thin as grass and weeds move in, so every four or five years I will have to disk and re seed.

rcannon · « **Reply #10 on:** April 14, 2014, 08:54:09 pm »

Since you already have some of the equipment, I'd have to give it a try. If you're buying new, a rake and baler will set you back probably $20-25k. You're a good mechanic, so used or rental return may suit you. Or just rent the equipment for a couple of years to see how things turn out without a large capitol outlay.
With the price of feed corn these days, a lot of dairies have started feeding silage/haylage. That may be a market you can look into.
The hay/forage market down here is very cyclical. During a dry year(s) the price goes up and the following years, everyone gets into the hay business, which floods the market. The price drops and everyone bails out. Then for a couple of years the hay supply runs out before the spring cuttings start. Up and down all the time.
I have a friend that farms perineal peanut hay and has several steady customers. He does pretty good. He's got a niche market for his product, which really works good for him. Smooths out the ups and downs.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #11 on:** April 14, 2014, 09:24:55 pm »

Agreed rcannon.
Thats part of why I figued $50.00 per bale instead of 100 or more to average it out.
I can buy a good baler for about the same money as I can buy a good rake... go figure... I have a 9 ft sickle bar, but will eventually need to invest in a better mower.
Part of the interest is in baling for others. They cut it I drive over and begin baling when they tell me its ready. A little extra income from riding around in an air conditioned cab. Already have two to bale for and have not even bought a baler yet. I think it will work out well if I can find good equipment to start. Breaking down on the first job cuts into profit.

blueblood · « **Reply #12 on:** April 14, 2014, 10:00:33 pm »

If I were closer, I would help sweat with ya when the labor kicks in to produce those...

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #13 on:** April 14, 2014, 10:17:51 pm »

Indiana isn't that far away!!

the nice thing about big round bales is that you use the tractor to move them. We used to feed the horses square bales... putting up hay is not a pleasant task. I admit that it kept me in better shape, tossing 300 square bales on the trailer, then tossing them UP into the loft and stacking them neatly.. then tossing them down one at a time a sthe horses needed them...

NO! I pick the round bale up with the tractor, put it where I want it, stand it up with the bale carrier, cut the wrap off and drop the feed ring over it.. DONE!! they have hay for a month or so... ten minutes of work in the cab, OUT of the 30+ mph winds when its -10 degrees.. I actually enjoy owning horses now.

barry42001 · « **Reply #14 on:** April 14, 2014, 11:49:50 pm »

Tossing bales of hay around keeps ya warm doesn't it, did me...

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LazyBkpr · « **Reply #15 on:** April 15, 2014, 08:41:19 am »

Yes it does Barry.. the problem with that is when its 95 degrees being warm isn't of as much interest!

lazy shooter · « **Reply #16 on:** April 15, 2014, 09:13:45 am »

If your information is correct, and the clovers will keep your bees on your farm it would be a benefit to not worry about the bees being killed by the neighbors pesticides. I live in ranch country, and my there is zero tilling around my bees, but my town bees get into some pesticides from time to time that kill many of them.

I keep my ranch under stocked and don't feed hay, but it sounds like a 100 bales per cutting on 20 acres is a real good crop. I would do it were I in your position. Now would be a good time to purchase the baler. Get cracking and good luck.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #17 on:** April 15, 2014, 10:41:21 am »

Shooter;
200 + bales is off 40 acres of the 43 not 20..
With two cuttings from my land I can easily produce 200 large round bales.
I should have stated it was 40+ acres.
Ten bales per acre would make me pretty happy, and might be doable with the right management and cutting it 4 times a year, but am only considering cutting twice at the end of each flow cycle, and I am also quite sure it will be rain dependent. If I cut after the first bloom has gone by and we get no rain for three months it will be difficult to get a second cutting that is worth much in forage for bees or cows.
It will all be a matter of weather and bloom. If the different crops etc are blooming well I may not cut until fall, it will all be trial and error until I figure out how to get the best of both worlds. Hoping to do enough custom baling to make up the difference in cost.
The field is already prepped for corn to go in this year, so it gives me a year to figure out exactly what would be best to plant and harvest, as well as come up with baler and rake.

lazy shooter · « **Reply #18 on:** April 15, 2014, 10:48:30 am »

I didn't realize it was 40 acres, and I have no experience with clover hay. Our country is too dry to grow clover. Most of our local hay is from the improved bermuda grasses, like coastal and bahia. We do have some peanut and pea hay, and out imported hay of choice is alfalfa. The horse people like alfalfa. It's too expensive for cattle after being trucked a thousand miles.

I would think it would take a long drying process to bale clover as it seems clover would have a high moisture content.

I do believe you are in the "cat bird" seat. Take a year to do your research and give it a shot.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #19 on:** April 15, 2014, 10:55:57 am »

cutting hay has always been one of my nemesis issues.
Grandpa used to say that cut hay needed a good rain to wash the dust off, and I have often used that little excuse.. but in general, two or three good hot breezy days, rake it, wait three or four hours and start bailing.. unless of course it rains...
I always wait until the weather report shows at least 5 days of no precip.. when it is supposed to be the driest... that way we are guaranteed to get rain the day after I cut.