Author Topic: AGAIN!! (Read 6923 times)

JUDELT · « **on:** April 14, 2014, 10:24:28 pm »

I went out again this morning and heard a swarm in a high pine tree! when I came out a little later, it was gone! around 5:50 I went out and saw a swarm in the poor old redtip, again! I tried to get it down till after 7pm and will try again in the a.m.! what are these girls doing?1

pistolpete · « **Reply #1 on:** April 14, 2014, 10:33:05 pm »

tonight, put out a cardboard box with a drawn old brood frame in it and a 1" hole cut in the side. Stick it in a concealed location about 10 feet off the ground. Maybe they'll move into it.

blueblood · « **Reply #2 on:** April 14, 2014, 10:50:33 pm »

Yeehaw, gidde up!

Perry · « **Reply #3 on:** April 15, 2014, 07:32:10 am »

Are these coming from one of your hives? Sound like afterswarms to me.

JUDELT · « **Reply #4 on:** April 15, 2014, 01:01:16 pm »

yes, I believe so, I'm not sure, but is it possible for a captured swarm to swarm? I went out around 9:30 this AM between drizzles with a net and bucket and caught last nites swarm! I made some sugar water ,honey-be-healthy mix and put on the hives in bucket feeders. The next two nites are going to be 38 and 34 degrees!

Jen · « **Reply #5 on:** April 15, 2014, 01:30:40 pm »

Yep! I believe she's going thru what I went thru with cast swarms. Stay alert Jude, you're doing great!

Keep an eye on the hives. It's been 1 month for my mother hive and two swarm hives, and I still don't think I'm out of the swarm zone yet.

apisbees · « **Reply #6 on:** April 15, 2014, 01:37:43 pm »

Go through every 7 to 9 says on a seek and distroy mission for queen cells.

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Jen · « **Reply #7 on:** April 15, 2014, 02:15:50 pm »

Hi Apis, now would that be all three kinds of queen cells? supercedure, swarm, and cups?

And then you get posts from Iddee and River where they don't destroy any of them?

So confusing

barry42001 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 15, 2014, 03:18:42 pm »

the problem with Iddee & Riverbees advise is they always think in terms of a expanding apairy not a static one. Supersedure cell would indicate the bees are dissatisfied with the queen. Allow the current queen to do her job. I would destroy all queen cells in their earlist stages or your risking additional swarming, your bees have demonstrated a proclivity towards that anyway.

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LazyBkpr · « **Reply #9 on:** April 15, 2014, 05:12:51 pm »

In the case of a supersedure cell I would respectfully disagree.. destroy a supersedure cell and you risk a dead hive... now... if she has a new queen coming in the next few days.. then I'd say for sure to remove any and all cells.

riverbee · « **Reply #10 on:** April 15, 2014, 06:21:23 pm »

"the problem with Iddee & Riverbees advise is they always think in terms of a expanding apairy not a static one."

i would just like to clarify something on this. i can't speak for iddee, but i didn't advise anyone to not cut queen cells, what i said was how i do it, i said i didn't 't cut queen cells. so i think there has been some confusion on this. i keep russian bees now. these bees are not prolific swarm cell building bees, but they will drive you absolutely crazy with all the queen cups/cells; just in case type, all season long the first few years you start keeping them until you realize it's just what they do and adjust your management accordingly. one week the cells are there, the next week they are gone, or somewhere else. this includes swarm cells and fully capped swarm cells. many cells are not always viable queens. i have seen my bees tear a capped swarm cell down and supercedure cells.

as far as supercedure cells, i leave them be. i don't cut them. i tend to think early spring and late summer/fall supercedures are not good. if i see supercedure cells already in the spring, the hive is requeened. in late summer/fall supercedures are not what i want to see, and requeening late in the season for me can be and is problematic.

barry, i don't always think in terms of expanding my apiary, but i am willing to start a nuc to help someone else get started or share the queen cells with another beekeeper who wants them. depending on the circumstances and if need be, i will cut cells but not all of them, and i leave more than two. if i use the cells in a nuc or a divide for myself, no cells are cut.

apisbees · « **Reply #11 on:** April 15, 2014, 09:46:30 pm »

We are talking about swarming hives so colonies that have prolific queens space but are building swarm cells constancly.

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iddee · « **Reply #12 on:** April 15, 2014, 09:54:14 pm »

Removing the last queen cell in a hive is the very best way i know to kill a hive. If the queen is failing, she will still fail and the hive will be queenless. If she wants to swarm, removing queen cells will not stop her. She will swarm anyway, leaving the hive queenless.

You may remove yours, and I may remove some to use elsewhere, but I will never remove the last one.

Jen · « **Reply #13 on:** April 15, 2014, 09:55:50 pm »

Riv- That was an educational butt chew if I ever saw one

ps. just trying to be light hearted

Love ya bee sistah

Jen · « **Reply #14 on:** April 15, 2014, 09:57:14 pm »

Thanks Mr. Wizard! Always appreciate your input

riverbee · « **Reply #15 on:** April 16, 2014, 12:34:56 pm »

"Riv- That was an educational butt chew if I ever saw one
ps. just trying to be light hearted
Love ya bee sistah "

well, it wasn't meant to be a butt chew, that was not my intent, and my apologies to anyone who may have thought this.
when it comes to bees we all manage our bees differently, and the mass of information is and can be overwhelming for anyone learning to manage bees. i am not standing in your shoes or looking at your hive, or 'reading' your frames, so i try to remember that, and just say how i do things or how i would do it.

i think iddee summed up best my own thinking and practice on swarm cells. it works for me.

barry42001 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 16, 2014, 12:55:57 pm »

its not been established whether the Queen actually is failing Judelt, what does the brood pattern look like. if its solid patterns of brood I wouldn't do anything, that also depends on how far along the Queen cell is, are there external factors that are taking place that are making the bees nervous or edgy, they have been known to take that out on the Queen. many things can cause supersedure, and there might not be anything at all wrong with the Queen.
just a few questions need to be answered.

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JUDELT · « **Reply #17 on:** April 16, 2014, 01:20:14 pm »

Yes, solid patterns of brood! this hive puts brood up in the super early . last year was a warm winter and had a frost late March which ended up brood of all stages outside below hive! they took awhile to come back! I guess next year, my third year, I need to get in this hive early and try to prevent this kind of thing by doing some splits?

barry42001 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 16, 2014, 01:27:15 pm »

are we talking supersedure cells or swarm cells, as a general rule swarm cells are located on the bottom third of the comb, not always but as a general rule. Supersedure cells tended to be on the upper third of the frame, and more centrally located. but it doesn't make any sense if she's making solid patterns brood. Only swarm cells make sense. Riverbee, also keep Russian hybrids, and they certainly do love their queen cups. I have often wondered, how much additional comb, would have been drawn on foundation, but for their need to make queen cups lol

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apisbees · « **Reply #19 on:** April 16, 2014, 02:52:14 pm »

Queens do not want to swarm. If they had their way they would tear down the cells the bees produce, but it is the worker bees in a hive that want to swarm and are protecting the cells and keeping the queen from tearing the swarm cells down. If you see cells in the hive if the hive as a strong population lots of solid brood, and the hive has brood of all ages including eggs, it is a good sign that the bees are not superseding. ir the queen is still actively laying I will tear down or remove every cell in the hive. This swarming activity happens about a week before the main honey flow. I will put a frame with a cell in a nuc if i think there could be a problem with the queen and not sure about her.
If the queen has stopped laying then the queen needs to be removed. But if you do not want the increase in hive numbers, remove the queen, cull the cells, go back in the hive in 6 days and cull any additional cells, go in the next day and reintroduce the queen.