Author Topic: Genetics Diversity from Drones  (Read 3311 times)

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Offline apisbees

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Genetics Diversity from Drones
« on: April 19, 2014, 03:43:34 pm »
A good photo showing the difference in  with the queen mating with many drones.
Photo downloaded from http://www.alexanderwild.com

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Offline Jen

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Re: Genetics Diversity from Drones
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2014, 05:08:55 pm »
Not sure what I'm looking for here, need some help please Apis  :)
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Offline pistolpete

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Re: Genetics Diversity from Drones
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2014, 08:28:06 pm »
What you're looking at is a photo with two or three different colored worker bees all from the same queen.  (same mom, different dads)
My advice: worth price charged :)

Offline Jen

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Re: Genetics Diversity from Drones
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2014, 08:39:02 pm »
Took another look.. Thanks Pete! I see it now  :)
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Offline tbonekel

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Re: Genetics Diversity from Drones
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2014, 10:43:44 pm »
I know I see some really nice capped honey.

Offline apisbees

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Re: Genetics Diversity from Drones
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2014, 01:46:13 am »
their is approximately 47 bees in the photo 30 along the outside that are cut by the photo edge, and about 32 hole bees in the center. 30 / 2 = 15.  So 15 + 32 = 47, there are 4 1/2 light bees in the picture so roughly 10% of the queens offspring are from a light drone the other 90% are from dark drones. Also what can be derived from this information and photo is that the queen mated with 10 drones on her mating flights. If there were drones in the photo and a photo of the queen even more could be figured about the genetics of the hive.
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Offline G3farms

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Re: Genetics Diversity from Drones
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2014, 08:08:24 am »
Also what can be derived from this information and photo is that the queen mated with 10 drones on her mating flights.

That is if the queen fertilized eggs with each drones sperm in a repeating order. In other words does the queen have the ability to select what sperm gets used on the egg before it is laid? I do not know the answer to this question but would venture to guess "no". So in reality she could have only mated with two drones (unlikely) and the sperm that fertilized the eggs was mainly from one of the drones, at least in this picture. Could go back in 60 days and find more yellow workers than black. Would be interesting to take another pic this fall of the same hive with the same queen and compare the % of color again.

or

Maybe of the two drones she mated with, the black drone had a higher sperm count than the yellow one. Maybe the yellow one was not as sexually mature.

Lots of possibilities, and just thinking out loud again. The theory of probabilities is always open to interpretation.

Good post though, thanks.
 
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Offline Woody Roberts

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Re: Genetics Diversity from Drones
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2014, 10:06:56 pm »
While I have no other beeks near me that I know of I do have bees of every color. I haven't counted but I'd guess the yellow bees at less than 10%. Most will be dark but a good many will be very near black.
I also have a lot of different sizes.
It seems like the black bees are the smallest. I suspect the size is because I have some small cell comb, regular foundation and the majority foundationless. It's all mixed together.

My son in law has Itialians and every time I see them I'm struck by the different color than what I'm used to.

Offline apisbees

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Re: Genetics Diversity from Drones
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2014, 12:17:57 am »
Also what can be derived from this information and photo is that the queen mated with 10 drones on her mating flights.

That is if the queen fertilized eggs with each drones sperm in a repeating order. In other words does the queen have the ability to select what sperm gets used on the egg before it is laid? I do not know the answer to this question but would venture to guess "no". So in reality she could have only mated with two drones (unlikely) and the sperm that fertilized the eggs was mainly from one of the drones, at least in this picture. Could go back in 60 days and find more yellow workers than black. Would be interesting to take another pic this fall of the same hive with the same queen and compare the % of color again.

or

Maybe of the two drones she mated with, the black drone had a higher sperm count than the yellow one. Maybe the yellow one was not as sexually mature.

Lots of possibilities, and just thinking out loud again. The theory of probabilities is always open to interpretation.

Good post though, thanks.

If this was the case we should see the temperament or the dynamics of the hive change as she uses up the sperm from specific drones first, some thing I have not whiteness over the last 33 years with the bees. From all the studies I have read they suggest a genetic diversity in the worker population from the variety of sperm the Queen receives during mating.   On studies of the amount of sperm the drones has to contribute the quantity is only significantly diminished when the drone was produced by a laying worker in the smaller worker cells. studies have shown that these drones are less likely to mate with queens because of their smaller size.

Talking a 47 bee sample from a single frame with only 1 element of the hive present is not a representation of the true make up of the colony as the genetic different between the workers provided by the drones the queen mated with could cause them to gravitate to some tasks in the hive and shun others. so a snap shot of a open brood frame could display different results.
The reason I thought to post the picture is to get beekeepers aware of the genetic diversity in the hives and to recognize it and observe how it is effecting the hive by their traits, temperament,  production, survivability, winter stores consumption, build up, and many more.
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Offline apisbees

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Re: Genetics Diversity from Drones
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2014, 12:24:41 am »
While I have no other beeks near me that I know of I do have bees of every color. I haven't counted but I'd guess the yellow bees at less than 10%. Most will be dark but a good many will be very near black.
I also have a lot of different sizes.
It seems like the black bees are the smallest. I suspect the size is because I have some small cell comb, regular foundation and the majority foundationless. It's all mixed together.

My son in law has Itialians and every time I see them I'm struck by the different color than what I'm used to.
If the small black bees are in the same hive and from a queen that is producing the yellow and dark ones, it is not the comb as the queen to my knowledge dose not control which sperm from what drone is used to fertilize any specific egg.
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Offline Barbarian

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Re: Genetics Diversity from Drones
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2014, 03:50:09 am »
Thanks for the interesting pics.  A fascinating topic.

I wonder what colour was the Queen .... or have I missed this fact ?  If daughter Queens were made, which colour of Queen would be selected for future colonies ?

I wonder if the genes controlling colour are dominant or recessive in respect of each other. Such a factor could skew the interpretation of the observed results.
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