Author Topic: What to do! (Read 9699 times)

crazy8days · « **on:** April 21, 2014, 09:00:40 am »

As of right now I have 4 strong hives. Next month I'll be picking up 4 queens and 2 nucs. My goal is to expand but still have them make honey. I split one hive last year and it did ok. But, splitting a hive seems to have me bugged. I want to do it right. I want my bees to still produce honey. So, I'm not sure the best way to do it.

Should I split my hives in 2? using the new queens I bought? Or, because I want hives to produce honey for this year should I just break down 1 hive and make 4 nucs? Or, Make a nuc off each hive? Or? Or? Or? :'(

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #1 on:** April 21, 2014, 09:04:14 am »

Make a nuc. do whats called a light split. taking only a couple frames of brood and bees, an extra shake of young bees and let them grow from that. the original hive will recover quickly.
You can also take that brood and bees from multiple hives to impact each hive a little less.. I have personally found that the light splits usually come at a good time to also help with congestion and swarming, and still make lots of honey.

brooksbeefarm · « **Reply #2 on:** April 21, 2014, 10:19:35 am »

I agree with the Lazy way of doing it.

Jack

Woody Roberts · « **Reply #3 on:** April 21, 2014, 11:43:05 am »

I'm pretty lazy myself.
Beekeeping is local of course but here my big flow happens pretty early with maintenance flows the rest of the summer. Fall flow is somewhat iffy.
If I'm going to get much of a honey crop my hives have to be strong by the first of May. It's difficult for me to make a strong split and either one be strong enough to make a good crop in time.
I do a light split with the queen and three frames of mixed brood when the blackberries bloom. This is a couple weeks after the flow is rolling good.

It all depends on the flows where your bees are.

riverbee · « **Reply #4 on:** April 21, 2014, 12:24:32 pm »

what lazy said crazy, that's how i do it when i want to increase but keep hives strong enough to make honey and also avoid swarming.

crazy8days · « **Reply #5 on:** April 21, 2014, 12:32:13 pm »

That sounds great! Crazy will do it the Lazy way!

riverbee · « **Reply #6 on:** April 21, 2014, 04:59:18 pm »

crazy, this is pretty much how i do divides in the spring and forgot to post this earlier, post #1:

Spring Divides

ps, the light divides of hives work really well, good luck!

Bsweet · « **Reply #7 on:** April 21, 2014, 10:03:13 pm »

I to do light splits and make NUCS by pulling the queen and a frame of brood a frame or two of stores plus a shake of hive bees, Keeps the parent hive strong, mostly prevents swarms and incresses the number of hives or you can sell the NUCS. In a good year with a strong hive you may be able to make two or more NUCS and still have a strong hive in the fall. Jim

crazy8days · « **Reply #8 on:** April 21, 2014, 11:00:01 pm »

In a light nuc. does the queen stay with the parent hive? Do these new nuc need to go to another bee yard?

Bakersdozen · « **Reply #9 on:** April 21, 2014, 11:15:12 pm »

When I do a split, in the new hive, I want to put 3-4 frames of brood with the nurse bees. I also want some workers to go into that box. I put the new queen in the new box. I leave the old queen in the old box. I also put a couple of frames of honey and pollen. Since you have 4 strong hives you can pull a frame or two from each of those hives to make the colony. You could easily do two splits. I do a split in the spring to help prevent swarming, replace a hive lost in the winter or just to expand. After doing the split be sure to feed, feed, feed. That will encourage the new queen to start laying. You and the queen want a strong work force in time for the major honey flow. Like Woody said, geographical differences will depend on when that is.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #10 on:** April 21, 2014, 11:15:53 pm »

It depends on your method in preparing that nuc. If swarm management is of importance, yes, queen goes to nuc and new queen goes in hive. Usually done if you have a queen older than two in the main hive, as the younger queen should help inhibit swarming with stronger pheromone etc..
If it is just to make increase then putting the new queen in the nuc would be the easier route to acceptance from the younger nurse bees in the nuc, as opposed to getting the old field bees in the main hive to accept the new queen.

I like to move my new nuc's to my fathers place about two miles away, but lack of time or energy on hot days has convinced me to keep them in my yard. The field bees you put in the nuc will return to the main hive, the nurse bees have never been out of the hive, and are not oriented to that hive so they should stay. Because there are no foragers feeding the nuc is important. Because there are no guard bees reducing and protecting the entrance is important.

Woody Roberts · « **Reply #11 on:** April 21, 2014, 11:26:19 pm »

For me as a general rule if the queen is near a year old she goes in the nuc with three frames of mixed brood.
This has to happen just after the start of the main flow for best honey production. If you do it too early it has the reverse effect. Too late and their liable to swarm.

Young queens born in the fall. Their not prone to swarm but they are prone to raise a lot of babies. If I was nervous or if I needed a nuc ideally I would pull a couple frames of eggs and young larva etc from 3 different hives. If I only had a 5 frame nuc I'd shake the bees off the last frame into the nuc.

I leave them in the same yard unless I need them somewhere else. The flying bees will go home but the nurse bees will stay there.

If I was buying a queen I'd put her in the hive and the old one in the nuc. In which case three frames is plenty. If the hive queen was young, say born in the fall I'd put the new one in the nuc. The nurse bees will have no problem accepting her.
Can you tell that sometimes I just go with my gut!

Edit, dang you guys type fast. I just spent 10 min that I'll never get back nearly repeating what youns said

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #12 on:** April 21, 2014, 11:30:35 pm »

LOL

brooksbeefarm · « **Reply #13 on:** April 22, 2014, 08:55:04 am »

Hey Woody, don't feel bad that happens to me all the time, but when you type with one finger you learn to expect that.

Jack

crazy8days · « **Reply #14 on:** April 22, 2014, 10:53:25 am »

All of my queens are a year or less old. I want to split all 4 hives to double what I have. Dandelions are popping up so honey flow is around the corner. I won't be getting my new queens till next month.

pistolpete · « **Reply #15 on:** April 22, 2014, 11:03:27 am »

have a look at jen's thread about how to re-queen. Lazybkpr posted a link there on OTS queen rearing. The first video on there is quite detailed. I think you're in the nick of time to head off swarming if you split now.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #16 on:** April 22, 2014, 12:29:40 pm »

hrm.. with queens ordered and coming next month... YOU need to hold off swarming till they arrive, but have good strong hives when they do arrive...

I would be installing some new foundation or empty frames to open things up a little. I would do this SOON, and save the drawn frames you pull out to use for the splits.
I use mediums, so adapt accordingly;
I will put two or three frames in the bottom brood chamber. Three or four in the second, and as many as five in the top. If you use foundation dont split the brood chamber.. however, if they have no eggs/brood in the box above the brood chamber putting a frame in the middle there will insure it gets drawn out rapidly as they plan to expand into it.
If they are still in the top, reverse boxes. I know some filks dont do it, but in this situation I recommend it, they need ROOM above them. I HAVE SEEN bees SWARM when they congest the top box, despite the fact they have a LOT of room under them. They usually move down, not always, and in this case you need to buy time. Employ the workers, give them comb to build with your flow on. I recommend getting new comb drawn any time there is a flow on, in this case they need to think they have too much to do at home to worry about another home.
If they have a lot of brood in all boxes, do the best you can with adding new foundation outside the brood nest.. maybe strip a few pieces of foundation into starter strips so you can put frames in the brood chamber? I know some folks really dont like foundation-less. IF they do have a lot of brood... seven or 8 frames of brood, I might even decap one frame to make them clean it out and fix it up.. anything to make them delay until you get your new queens....

riverbee · « **Reply #17 on:** April 22, 2014, 05:19:09 pm »

some good advice by scott crazy. a couple things, i wouldn't use foundation in the brood chambers with no flow on, i would use drawn comb if you have it, although i have done as scott has, placed one frame of foundation in the 2nd deep. you don't want to have to feed them to draw foundation in the brood chamber, they ignore it sometimes or they start plugging up the brood chamber with syrup, so if you have to feed watch this closely. best place to utilize foundation, and employ the bees and help keep them from swarming, is to place one or two supers on full of foundation. like scott said space above them. i have fed them to get them started on the supers when no flow is on, and as soon as the flow starts, dandelions, i pull feed off. they don't need it.
keep the brood nests open, this might require, as scott said reversal of the boxes, and also rearranging of frames if need be, and space above.

i have been in your shoes, and am this year, queens coming june 5th...... one hive with a double deep we placed a 3rd deep on top. didn't reverse. the 3rd deep is all drawn comb with the exception of 2 honey frames. the hive is light and no flow here for several weeks. if we need to add additional honey frames they will go in. if the bees start going gang busters and the flow is good, i will see about adding a super on top to keep them busy until the queens arrive. this hive will be divided at that time. (mind you i am keeping bees through the eyes of another.....

). this does work, although a PITA with 3 deeps.

in the past i have as i said, put supers of foundation on top of double deeps, if you do keep the queen excluder off.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #18 on:** April 22, 2014, 09:06:18 pm »

Agreed completely, but he said the flow was about to start and dandelions are popping, which is why I suggested the empty frames.

Quote from: crazy8days on April 22, 2014, 10:53:25 am

All of my queens are a year or less old. I want to split all 4 hives to double what I have. Dandelions are popping up so honey flow is around the corner. I won't be getting my new queens till next month.

crazy8days · « **Reply #19 on:** April 22, 2014, 10:21:01 pm »

Looks like I need to get in there and check them out better. Hives feel light so I have light syrup on now. Will see if the boxes should be reversed. And a third box of undrawn.