Split the hive but..

[vossejongk]

I split the hive on April 20th in the afternoon. So according to bee logic the new Queens in the old hive should hatch may 4th and then probably swarm. To prevent swarming I was planning to open the queen cells on the evening on may 3rd and let the misses sort it out overnight. Problem is I'm not able to do so from may 3rd 4pm till  3 - 4 am in the night next day because I'm at a concert from within temptation 220 km away.  (who would of thought of that, a 23 year old trucker that's also a beekeeper who loves goth-ish metal rock music lol and still looks normal ^_^)

So now what? I only know a handful of people capable of doing this and noone is available.   I'm afraid if I open the cells too early on the 3rd they'll swarm late afternoon when I'm not there, if I do it at night there's a big chance I'll miss a cell in the little light my flashlight gives which gives a swarm next day, and if I do it on the 4th it's probably already too late. *help!*

[G3farms]

Since this is a split and they raised a new queen there was a break in the brood cycle, the population will be down some what in the upcoming days. I really do not think they will swarm on you, my splits do not want to swarm until the queen is laying and they run out of room in a five frame nuc. I would never open a queen cell to "let her out" good way kill the queen or have the workers drag her out the front door.

Leave them alone and let nature take its course, they have been sorting things out for centuries without the help of mankind.

[riverbee]

good advice by g vosse. like he said, a good way to wind up queenless in my HO. you split the hive and left queen cells in the old hive. let the bees and queens figure out who reigns. i have utilized swarm cells in nucs, and as long as i leave them alone and not let the nuc get crowded, they do just fine. i wouldn't be concerned about swarming.

[Perry]

I can't add much to what has been said already. Do not open queen cells, and they will sort it out themselves.

[iddee]

Along with what was said above, a queen needs 3 or 4 days after emerging for their wings to harden before flying.

[vossejongk]

Thanks guys, I won't touch the queen cells then. I'd like to mention there's still a pretty large amount of bees in there, at least enough for a swarm. My teacher opted to close the entrance so the Queens can't get out and they'll be forced to fight it out. What's your opinion on that?

[Perry]

Along with what was said above, a queen needs 3 or 4 days after emerging for their wings to harden before flying.

And there you have it folks, that's what I love about this place. I did not know that. I learn something everyday here.

Edit -  Don't lock them in, let Nature take it's course!!

[riverbee]

........
well i did know that about the wings and ditto, do not lock them in....

ps next question, you have g, perry, iddee and me waitin to answer..........

[vossejongk]

Thanks for the lightning fast answers guys, you people are a bee/lifesaver!

[G3farms]

If you lock them in the hive how will she be able to take her mating flights?
This should occur on the fourth or fifth day after she hatches out.
If the bees are locked in they can not take cleansing flights or forage, let'em fly!

[Barbarian]

The 'emergency' Q cells in the old box will have had the benefit of a strong hive (with a full force of foragers) to feed them well.
These cells should be near the sealing stage.

When you have sealed (but not hatching) cells, one option I would take is to swop the hives around. The split would have the benefit of the strong force of foragers.

The box with the Q cells would be on the stand that had been occupied by the split. The Q cells box would loose any foragers that had been
moved with it. It may need feeding. The Q cell box will be depleted of bees, less likely to swarm and the new Queen sooner to start laying.

Just another option.

[vossejongk]

Oh, I think we're misunderstanding each other here. I put the new hive on the spot of the old hive which was moved about 50 cm to the left, added an empty frame of drawn comb, 2 frames of honey/pollen and 1 frame with worker eggs, together with the queen and enough bees to cover about 2 frames. So all the foraging bees went to the new hive, the old hive was left with young bees and 7 frames of brood from which they made about 8-10 emergency queen cells.

[LazyBkpr]

   I move the old queen out of the hive as well when I do an artificial swarm/split..   However I don't leave all the cells in the hive. I use them for other splits, or simply destroy all but two of the best "looking" ones..   Best looking...   hard to explain, the biggest/nicest looking I guess is how it is best put.
   I know some who claim only ONE should be left, but, what if the queen in that cell does not emerge for any of many reasons?  There is a chance Both will not emerge, and there is a chance if both DO emerge one will swarm.. It is a matter of odds with me..   two cells left give me better odds ONE will emerge..   If BOTH emerge they may fight it out. If one emerges before the other, the first out is likely to kill the second one before she can emerge...
   Calculated risk I guess best explains it.

[Barbarian]

Sorry Vosse.       I misunderstood your placement of the old Queen and original box of brood.

I think the original box of brood with the Q cells is unlikely to swarm. If you are still worried about them swarming, you could do a Pagden movement. Move the box with Q cells to the other side of your hive containing the old Queen. The foragers from the Q cell box will be confused and beg their way into the old Q box. The box with the Q cells will be further weakened and less likely to swarm.     Hope this makes sense.

If the music on the 3rd and 4th of May keeps me awake, do you think there is any point in complaining to Blue ?     

[Lburou]

FWIW, I either move or destroy excess emergency  queen cells (excess defined here as more than two).  When I see which cells are capped first, I tend to destroy those, thinking that later cells will be better nourished and make better queens over time.  Leaving too many cells to hatch leaves the door open to swarming under some conditions, so, after making that mistake more than once, I make it a point not to leave more than two cells to hatch.  JMO   

[vossejongk]

Thanks guys, my teacher agreed as well its best to remove all but the 2-3 best looking ones.

[pistolpete]

A good reason to leave just two or three cells is so that the first queen does not have to expend a whole bunch of energy eliminating her rivals.   Theoretically this leaves her in better shape for mating flights.

[vossejongk]

Well, the bees beat me to it. Today was the 13th day I arrived at 3pm  and all but 1 out of 8 queen cells had holes in em. On the 2nd frame I saw the new queen and also removed the last intact queen cell on that one. The holes were on the sides of the cells and a bee could fit through it. So I guess the first born killed the other Queens or the bees removed them? Afaik there was no swarming the hive was the same size as 2 days ago.  Now got to wait until she mates and starts laying