Grafting rookie with capped cells in 84 hours....

[Lburou]

I was doing a practice run for my first grafting of larva.  You know, going through the motions to check the pieces of equipment I've gathered for the purpose, and find the rough spots in the process.

I grafted 84 hours ago and have a couple capped cells.  I conclude that I chose larva that were two or three days old for those grafts -they did not look that old though, must be a gap in my education.  I put the cells up to the light and didn't see a shadow in there, but should there be a shadow at this point? 

The thing I'm really testing with this round is the Ben Hardin method, with grafted cells in a queen right colony.  It seems to be working.  My grafting technique needs work, but its coming along.

Do you all agree that I grafted larva that was too old?  Several cells are still uncapped with obvious larva to be seen.

It is fun! 

[LazyBkpr]

   LB there could be a lot of things going on. not necessarily with your grafting..
    Did you put the cups in overnight to let the bees polish and clean them before grafting into them?
   Is the queens Pheremone still a little too strong so they did not jump on as many cells as they could have?
      Finding the larvae that are same size or VERY slightly smaller than the egg they hatched from is always a guess with my eyes....   I look for eggs,and work my way over to the eggs that are now laying down.. meaning in the process of hatching/dissolving the eggs wall..   Next to those will be newly hatched Larvae that get older as you progress outward/inward..  The queen lays in a circle pattern..  as the center of the pattern begins to emerge, she will begin laying in those cells as soon as they are polished again..
   If you got a couple accepted your already on the right path.  Refine and adapt!!!
   

[Lburou]

Thanks for the input Lazy.  Yes, the bees polished the cups.  The queen has been under the excluder about two weeks, so I doubt pheromones are much of an issue.  Nurse bees are festooning all over the grafts and mobbing the cells, so we are on the right track.

I'm familiar with the egg laying pattern.....Used a frame with a thin band of larva this cycle and that made it more work to find larva of the right age.  I can improve that by managing the frames available to the queen when I really get serious.

Is there any other factor that allows capped cells in 84 hours? Its been in the 80's and 90's here this week.

[LazyBkpr]

Flow and or available feed would be the only other major factor I can think of Lb.
   Didnt mean to imply you weren't familiar with the pattern.. just thinking out loud. 
   Maybe one of the masters can shed more light on the situation.

[Lburou]

Flow and or available feed would be the only other major factor I can think of Lb.
   Didnt mean to imply you weren't familiar with the pattern.. just thinking out loud. 
   Maybe one of the masters can shed more light on the situation.

No offense taken.....I'm feeding sugar water and there is an abundance of pollen now.  I'm thinking the larva were older than I should have grafted, compounded by the warmer weather (could possibly speed larval development a fraction of a day).  Was just wondering if there was something else.... 

[apisbees]

The bees will regulate the temp in the hive so that should not cause an increase in speed. you are only 1 day short and you mentioned that some of the grafts are still open That suggests to me older larva were used. These queens could prove to be inferior due to the fact that they were not feed royal jelly to the same extent as the very young larva are.

[Lburou]

The bees will regulate the temp in the hive so that should not cause an increase in speed. you are only 1 day short and you mentioned that some of the grafts are still open That suggests to me older larva were used. These queens could prove to be inferior due to the fact that they were not feed royal jelly to the same extent as the very young larva are.

Thanks Apis, that confirms my guess.  I appreciate your response. 

[tecumseh]

1) So do I get the proper idea here Lee that you are using a cloak method to start the cells?

2) small details in grafting can some times be an issue when you first start >  did you prime the cells? or cover the cells with a damp cloth as you were grafting?

as to #1 the cloake method I think takes a bit of practice and preparation to get that to work (before, during and after grafting) but I am guessing that the largest problem is with just the process of grafting (and selecting proper aged larvae) and I am also guessing this will get much better with practice < some of my own very early experience at grafting (oh say 35 years ago) was not much better take than what you reported.   

[Lburou]

Hello tec 
 
I'm trying to remember the things you said and showed me last year.  And, I'm pretty happy with the results so far.  I'm using the Ben Hardin method, producing the cells over a queen excluder and a queenright hive.  (I'll do only a few at at a time). This time, I primed the cells and covered the frame and grafts most of the time.  The humidity was 87% that day and it only took five minutes to do the small number of grafts.  The damp towel felt cool to my touch....seems counterproductive, but who am I to go against what works.....?   The hive is just outside the door of my shop, so the eggs were not exposed to drying very much. 

I was most interested in trying the 'process' of getting the numbers of nurse bees up, polishing the cups, grafting, feeding and all the other details.  I'm going to graft again in the next day or two, I'll be more selective with the age of the larva now.  May even try the nicot for grins.  Breeder queen arriving soon.

Tec, how long do most breeder queens live?

Let me know when You can come speak to our Club 

[jb63]

Good thread Lee.Keep on writing and take some pics if you can.

[tecumseh]

I have no understanding of the Ben Hardin method.  Guess I need to try to keep up with these new fangled ideas in my old age. 

I am having some difficulty navigating this site.  Everything seems to load extremely slowly which is extremely frustrating.  Kind of reminds me of the old dial up modem connection I had some years back.

Jane has a class at Fossil Rim starting around the first of June and except for my participation in the Texas Beekeepers Summer Clinic (which is to be at the Texas A&M bee lab) on June 7 I should be able to pencil you guys up at Glen Rose at any time.   call or pm and I will 'put you on my dance card'.

[LazyBkpr]

Tec..  Move closer.  Anywhere within two hours..   Missouri, Illinois etc...  Please let me know when you have done this!   

[Lburou]

I'll be calling soon!