bees not building queen cells

[pistolpete]

I'll re-cap from my previous 2 threads:  I've been trying out OTS queen rearing.  6 days ago I removed the old queen and notched cells on two frames.  3 days later I went back and saw no queen cells, but saw eggs.  I concluded that there must have been two queens in the hive.

Yesterday I went through the hive to look for the second queen.  I could not find her and also was not seeing any eggs.  I guess my first check there were still eggs left from the original queen.

So I took a frame with eggs and larvae from the nuc, notched a few likely candidates and stuck it in the parent hive.   I also took 4 frames more frames from the parent hive and made up a second nuc.  Into this second nuc I also put a frame with notched eggs and very small larvae. 

Today I checked on both the big hive and the second Nuc.  In both cases the frames I notched yesterday were fixed (I couldn't really tell where the notches had been) and no queen cells built.   I picked more likely candiates and notched again.

So why the heck are these bees refusing to build queen cells?   Temperatures are 18 to 20 during the day and there is lots of stuff blooming.  Drones are flying, but not in large numbers.

[Jen]

I'm Yelling Thru The Screen - 'Consider yourself Really Really Lucky Pete! Last week I pulled 29 queen cells out of one hive'

Today I found that my bees Requeened my new and now dead Requeen!  I would be happy to cage this now living queen if you would like to have her 

[Lburou]

Have you considered the Hopkins Method?  I was unsuccessful with the OTS method as well. 

[pistolpete]

I'm guessing that some of the issues have been with timing.  I took the queen out and notched the cells at the same time.  That does not explain why they "fixed" the notches the second time around when they have been queenless for 6 days.  I like the theory of OTS (working with the bees natural instincts).  Way less messing around than Hopkins, especially since I only want one or two queens.    Anyway, I am happy to puzzle my way through this.   If my queen rearing efforts fail, I will use the two queens I ordered for the end of May.

[apisbees]

Pete we are still early into the year, the spring has been colder and the bees slower to build up. the beekeepers who produce queen around here will be stimulating feeding since February so they can get colonies built up, cells raised, and queens mated for sales from the Mid to end of May

[Jen]

Hi Apis! Ya, timing in California is way off as well. Warmer than usual early spring and no water.

[apisbees]

Here cold and wet January, February and part of March. every thing is 2 weeks later this year, Bees, Golf course opening date, Plants. The loss of early build up time pushes back the bees. If the bees are not in cell building mode the cell rate on grafts can be poor.

[LazyBkpr]

   How deeply are you notching the cell?   I pulled 2/3 of the cell wall down..  I also made up the nuc the evening before, then introduced the notched cells just after lunch time the next day.
   No other ideas to throw out..  Everyone else already covered it.

[pistolpete]

Well, looks like they fooled me again.   The bees did not build queen cells on the frames that I notched (the first time) but picked a couple in the bottom deep where I didn't check.   Hard to do a full inspection with no protective gear when they're grumpy like that.   They did draw down some queen cells on the second frame I put in there.     The Nuc also made some nice queen cells where I notched, but again they did it the second time I made some notches.   I am starting to think that they just have to be queenless a little longer than 24 hrs. for the OTS to work

[blueblood]

Always keeping us on our toes.

[jb63]

I just gave a frame of eggs to a queen-less nuc, should I have notched some cells?Or will they figure it out on their own?

[LazyBkpr]

They will do what they need to do.. Notching means they do not have to float the larvae out to make a queen from it. a little easier and a little quicker.

[robo]

Just remember,  putting notched cells in nucs is not recommended.   Nucs do not have enough resources to make great quality queens.   If you are a walk-away split believer,  disregard this message.

As Krusty says "It's not just good, it's good enough!".

[LazyBkpr]

Just remember,  putting notched cells in nucs is not recommended.   Nucs do not have enough resources to make great quality queens.   If you are a walk-away split believer,  disregard this message.

As Krusty says "It's not just good, it's good enough!".

   I disagree.. I use a strong nuc to raise ten cells at a time. Fantastic queens in fact..   If raising MORE than ten...  then I wont disagree...  They will need more resources.

[robo]

You can disagree,  and there are exceptions to every rule.    I don't think most people are getting 'strong' nucs when they take 2 frames of brood with bees.

I am only passing on Mel's view (which are similar to mine) when it comes to OTS.   

From a resource management point of view,  you can get more quality queens from a strong hive than by splitting it into nucs and then raising queens. 

I have seen time and time again people doing walk-away splits and are happier than a pig when they have a new queen that is laying like crazy.   Even poor quality queens can function great in the summer when the conditions are ideal.   When fall comes and things start getting tough is the true test on queens.  It is also the worst time to have a failing queen. 

[LazyBkpr]

TRUE... cant disagree with that.  Strong nuc is 3 frames of capped brood with bees, and extra nurse bees, a frame of nectar and a spot for the cell bar/notched frame. LOT of bees in this nuc, and once they get the cell they will keep they get a second nuc body...

   BTW.. I LIKE the new videos!!




  Great job!!!

[robo]

   BTW.. I LIKE the new videos!!

Ouch!  I assume you are being sincere,  but the truth is that video is 3 years old and I have been promising an update for over a year.   Tried to do a new version last year, but ran into some technical difficulties and scrapped the whole thing.    Hopefully this year a new one will come out.   I have a plexiglass super that will hopefully give some interesting footage of what "really" happens inside.

If I only didn't have a "real" job getting in the way :-)

[jb63]

Thx,the nuc was average or below then I moved it to catch some drift back and it gained about a pound more of bees.They have stored nectar so we'll see what they do in a couple of days.

[LazyBkpr]

heheh.. sorry Robo, yes I was being sincere.. I had not seen them, apparently I had not clicked the right link before yesterday.