Author Topic: Inspected dead queen hive today (Read 7174 times)

Jen · « **on:** May 10, 2014, 05:34:26 pm »

No Eggs!! None! Just larvae about med sized. There is some very small curled larvae, maybe 10, but it doesn't look to healthy to me. So this tells me that this queen isn't mated. I left queen in there because Frankly I'm still confused on what exactly to do here. But I can go get her out in a nano second if that's my next step...

There was three uncapped queen cells, and one possible live cell, I squished it and nothing oozed out.

Queen

Riverrat · « **Reply #1 on:** May 10, 2014, 05:43:14 pm »

Nice looking queen. almost to plump to be an unmated queen. I would give her another week. It almost looks in the last pic like eggs at the bottom of the frame.

Perry · « **Reply #2 on:** May 10, 2014, 05:53:09 pm »

I'm with Rat. She looks like a young queen. Don't be too eager to give up on her. The brood looks OK to me, just looks spotty only because of the pollen and weird comb.

barry42001 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 10, 2014, 05:54:15 pm »

Personally, since the genetics of this queen would be from the stock you don't want. Squish her, and add a few frames of eggs from known stock.

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efmesch · « **Reply #4 on:** May 10, 2014, 06:13:36 pm »

Sorry to disagree with riverrat and Perry, but to me the queen looks like a virgin. It could be that she is very recently mated and hasn't "swolen out" yet. But I agree with them, hold on to her and let her mate/develop and start laying. She definitely looks to be of good potential.
From what I could make out of the brood in the cells of pic #2, none are of the age young enough to produce good queens.

Riverrat · « **Reply #5 on:** May 10, 2014, 06:13:47 pm »

Quote from: barry42001 on May 10, 2014, 05:54:15 pm

Personally, since the genetics of this queen would be from the stock you don't want. Squish her, and add a few frames of eggs from known stock.

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Don't squish her I will adopted her send her my way.

barry42001 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 10, 2014, 06:18:07 pm »

lol Riverrat, obviously you don't have enough swarmy, non-productive hives...go ahead send the queen..no return address lol

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Jen · « **Reply #7 on:** May 10, 2014, 06:40:05 pm »

First address... Riverrat. Okay, I don't know if you've been following my 10 swarm story... but this queen might be from the genetics that I'm trying to rid from my hives. The swarms were swarming, hense not much production in the hives. I really don't think you want these genetics River... $:-\$

Jen · « **Reply #8 on:** May 10, 2014, 06:45:38 pm »

Okay guys... what I'm trying to decifer is if this is a queen from the swarmy genetics.

Three days ago, I lifted the hive body up to flip the bottom board and my new installed queen was dead on the bottom of the hive. I'm not good at doing the math of how old larva is and all that... yet.

Going back to the post 'Can a queen play possum' is where we were trying to decide if this larvae is from the purchased dead queen, or if the swarmy gentics queen. If she's swarmy I've got to get her out of there...

Jen · « **Reply #9 on:** May 10, 2014, 06:50:27 pm »

Hi Barry- I have the other two hives that were requeened at the same time, but don't know what's going on in there yet. Will find out tomorrow. So curious to see if those two queens are doing okay, I sure hope so $:-\$

pistolpete · « **Reply #10 on:** May 10, 2014, 11:17:49 pm »

I think the answer you got in the "possum" thread was correct. When you put the purchased queen in there you missed a queen cell (most likely an uncapped one that was still small). So the queen cell took about 8 to 10 days to develop and hatch, at which point the virgin queen bumped off the mated one. My best guess is that your new queen was laying in the hive for 5 or 6 days before her untimely demise. All the larvae you see now are from the old queen, but there may be a small patch of eggs somewhere from the new queen. If you want to eliminate these genetics, pinch the queen now. Wait 24 hours, then put in a frame with eggs from one of your new queens. Notch a few cells as per OTS. Clearly mark this frame. check it 3 days later to see it they made queen cells on this frame. At the same time go through the hive and squish any queen cells on other frames (just in case the new queen starter laying). Go back 11 days later and do the same (eliminating Q cells on frames other than the introduced one).

Or just pinch the queen and combine with another hive.

Jen · « **Reply #11 on:** May 10, 2014, 11:44:42 pm »

Pete- ""Notch a few cells as per OTS."" Please explain?

pistolpete · « **Reply #12 on:** May 11, 2014, 02:31:21 am »

Go to the queen rearing section. On the second page there is a thread on OTS (on the spot) queen rearing. I highly recommend Mel's video on there, just make sure you have an hour to watch it. To sum it up: when you notch or entirely remove the bottom cell wall of a cell containing a one day old larva, the bees start treating it as a queen cell. This allows you to let the bees build queen cells in locations convenient to you and where they are less likely to be damaged.

Jen · « **Reply #13 on:** May 11, 2014, 12:36:52 pm »

Pete - ""Notch a few cells as per OTS""

Is this absolutely neccessary? If I put in a frame of eggs in won't the bees make a queen cell on their own?

efmesch · « **Reply #14 on:** May 11, 2014, 01:15:43 pm »

If they build on their own, they very well might not build them where it is convenient for you or where you are likely to find them and, should you want to, be able to easily cut them out.

Jen · « **Reply #15 on:** May 11, 2014, 02:33:22 pm »

Been reading up on this notching thing on the Raising Queens. I'm not ready for all of this science yet. If anything I'll take the swarmy queen out and add a frame of very fresh eggs from a hive with the purchased queen, and let the bees decide what to do.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #16 on:** May 11, 2014, 04:39:42 pm »

The bees float the larvae out on a normal cell. Notching the cell means they dont have to. Not much science to it really.
A lot of talking and questions tend to make things confusing. I use the corner of my hive tool, and put it about 2/3 of the way into the cell, then bend the tool down while pressing down. This will likely open the cell to either side of the one you notched as well, so use a match head and squish the larvae in those two cells.. do this in three or four places... DONE.. put that frame in with the queenless bees and walk away.
If you picked a young enough larvae they will turn it into a queen.
I put marks on top of the frame so I know where the cells should be, in case they decide to float out more than I have notched.
Check in three days to make sure they have accepted at least two of the cells. If they did NOT start cells, put that frame back in the hive you got it from and do another one the same way.

Jen · « **Reply #17 on:** May 11, 2014, 04:49:56 pm »

So this can be done anywhere on the face of the frame? 3 or 4 notches here and there?

And it would behoove me to try and find a cell with an egg that is standing up?

Jen · « **Reply #18 on:** May 11, 2014, 05:05:02 pm »

Scott- ""This will likely open the cell to either side of the one you notched as well, so use a match head and squish the larvae in those two cells.. do this in three or four places... DONE""

K, bare with me here. There is some instruction on how to do this. But I'm not finding anything on WHY to do this, except that it will allow me to find the queen cells that I provoked.

If you push a hive tool into a cell, and squish the larvae... I don't see why the bees would want to make a queen in a damaged cell and squished one day old egg?

If the hive has been queenless for a day or two, and there is a new frame with brand new eggs in it, wouldn't the bees find a one day old egg and start making a queen out of it? The only thing missing here is that I would have to search for the queen cell.

pistolpete · « **Reply #19 on:** May 11, 2014, 07:08:02 pm »

Ideally what you look for is a freshly hatched larva. It will look about the same size as an egg, but floats in a little pool of royal jelly. Notching does not damage the larva unless you are super clumsy about it. I like the way Mel does it, just notch 7 or 8 cells with one motion of the hive tool and let the bees pick out the one they like best. Do it in 3 or 4 places on the face of the frame. The best way I heard it explained is: remove the floor under the larva. This actually helps the bees make a really nice queen cell, rather than an emergency queen cell. Biggest advantage is you know exactly where to look for the queen cells, rather than searching through the hive.