Author Topic: Second Purchased Queen STILL ALIVE ! (Read 8136 times)

Jen · « **on:** May 12, 2014, 10:23:48 pm »

This week I can get into my mother and daughter hive to see if all is well after the new queen introduction. It's evening so I didn't have time to do a complete inspection, so I peeked into the top medium to see if it was getting full enough for a second medium. I looked thru the first 4 frames, And There She Was Singin' Doo Wah Ditty! My Marked Queen! My heart took a gulp.

So I put her back in and closed up the hive until tomorrow.

What I also saw was three open queen cells, and that is within the first four frames.

This is the hive that I removed 29 queen cells out of. I was certain that I removed them all, but I've been outsmarted again.
They are either trying to supercede her, OR, these are cells that were too small for me to detect?

Plan of attack is to go in tomorrow and remove cells again ~ Yes? anything else?

apisbees · « **Reply #1 on:** May 13, 2014, 09:38:14 am »

Yes I would remove them from the hive. especially if she is laying lots of eggs.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #2 on:** May 13, 2014, 09:54:27 am »

Is there anything IN those cells Jen?

riverbee · « **Reply #3 on:** May 13, 2014, 10:46:59 am »

"I looked thru the first 4 frames, And There She Was Singin' Doo Wah Ditty! My Marked Queen!........What I also saw was three open queen cells, and that is within the first four frames........Plan of attack is to go in tomorrow and remove cells again ~ Yes? anything else?
"

hmmm, if she's piping? i'd be looking for more than just removing cells, jen.

i am guessing from your post she was on the first four frames, the same frames with cells on them?

Intheswamp · « **Reply #4 on:** May 13, 2014, 11:22:06 am »

Are you thinking there's the possibility of an upcoming "Battle Royale", riverbee?

Ed

Jen · « **Reply #5 on:** May 13, 2014, 12:29:27 pm »

Apis- ""Yes I would remove them from the hive. especially if she is laying lots of eggs.""

I'll find that out today. I only went in a little bit to see if they were crowded and it was dusk.

Scott- ""Is there anything IN those cells Jen?""

No! they are polished clean, edges uniform

Riv ""hmmm, if she's piping? i'd be looking for more than just removing cells, jen.

No piping! Curious? Why would she be piping?

And yes, she was spotted on the top medium, four frames in, I believe she was on the frame with the empty cells. She was Very skittish and 'running' around.

riverbee · « **Reply #6 on:** May 13, 2014, 12:43:31 pm »

" No piping! Curious? Why would she be piping?

And yes, she was spotted on the top medium, four frames in, I believe she was on the frame with the empty cells. She was Very skittish and 'running' around."

my mistake jen, you said in your earlier post "And There She Was Singin' Doo Wah Ditty! My Marked Queen!" i took this to mean that she was piping, when you said "singing". hmmm, skittish and running around? sorry if i missed this somewhere jen, but was she a mated queen?

Jen · « **Reply #7 on:** May 13, 2014, 01:28:38 pm »

Oh That's Funny Riv! I can see how you might think that. I called Koehnen Queens where I purchased my three queens, and she said that that is all they sell is mated queens, and that they don't go on the selling block until they have laid eggs

efmesch · « **Reply #8 on:** May 13, 2014, 04:46:32 pm »

Don't be nervous about having queen cups in the hive. They can sit around for years and never be used. Just be sure that your queen has adequate laying space.

Jen · « **Reply #9 on:** May 13, 2014, 05:07:51 pm »

Ef- just finished inspecting the top medium, taking a break. To my knowledge so far, these would be supercedure cells along the bottom of the frame.

This is a clump of 5 empty cells

This is a single

So far I've taken out 6 cells in this medium, all empty with clean edges. I still have to go thru the deep.

Garden Hive · « **Reply #10 on:** May 13, 2014, 05:39:05 pm »

Those are just cups......and as Ef said they just have them available if needed. I would expect to see them since there has not been brood in the hive. BUT there is brood now, evident by the photo.

I'll bet you have various stages on frames.

Now relax a bit.

apisbees · « **Reply #11 on:** May 13, 2014, 05:47:42 pm »

If will save a lot of confusion if the proper term is used for the type of cell If these do not have a Egg, Larva, or Pupa in them they are a queen cup Queen cups are present in the hive bees seem to always construct a few. Once it has an Egg, Larva, or Pupa in a cell or the bees have fed and floated out a larva it is a queen cell.

Jen · « **Reply #12 on:** May 13, 2014, 05:55:27 pm »

That's an easy explaination Apis, thanks. So then, I have taken out 10 queen cups. I am half way thru the bottom deep. At this point in my queen introduction lessons, it was the majority vote that I take out everything related to a possible queen, until the new queen has a gain on the genetic trade. 6 weeks of inspection.. Right?

Intheswamp · « **Reply #13 on:** May 13, 2014, 08:48:13 pm »

Quote from: Jen on May 13, 2014, 05:07:51 pm

Ef- just finished inspecting the top medium, taking a break. To my knowledge so far, these would be supercedure cells along the bottom of the frame.

This is a clump of 5 empty cells

Jen, wouldn't those be swarm cells if they were finished out?....being along the bottom of the frame? I thought supercedure cells were up higher on the frames.

Ed

Jen · « **Reply #14 on:** May 13, 2014, 09:20:12 pm »

Uuuuum... ya know... I think you're right Ed!

Ed- ""Jen, wouldn't those be swarm cells if they were finished out?....being along the bottom of the frame?""

Please explain 'finished out'? You mean tidy edges?

I'm still learning the queen cup/cell thing. Before installing the queen 10 days ago, I gleaned 29 loaded queen/supercedure cells out of this hive. They were All Over The Place! No rhyme or reason.

Okay, thinking.... This is why I have to get into this hive once a week or sooner until the original genetics are out of there. 6 weeks of inspections.

But at least there weren't 29 live queen cells this time ~ Good Gravy!

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #15 on:** May 13, 2014, 09:45:50 pm »

I have several hives with half a dozen or so "cups" about the same location yours are. If I remove the empty cups they will rebuild them somewhere else. If there is no egg/larvae or royal jelly in those cups then they are a common thing to have and see, not cause for concern until something is IN them. From what I see things look pretty good in that hive. Should only get better from here on out!

Jen · « **Reply #16 on:** May 13, 2014, 09:47:49 pm »

Good News!............ I Have No Bad News!

I buttoned up the Still Alive Hive today and found nothing alarming except for 10 supercedure cells on the lower edges of some frames. Now, if my reasoning is right thru all your teachings out there, these original swarmy bees have to cycle out in 6 weeks, so their still doing what they do best and that's making gads of queen cells.

There is plenty of brood of all stages, even eggs, capped brood, nectar, capped honey, and pollen.

I Call This Progress in the right direction..... but I'm not ready to exhale yet. However, I did decide to sit back and enjoy a brew after inspection feeling like there is a light at the end of the beehive

Jen · « **Reply #17 on:** May 13, 2014, 09:52:03 pm »

Thanks for the encouragement Scott

Intheswamp · « **Reply #18 on:** May 14, 2014, 12:16:08 am »

Quote from: Jen on May 13, 2014, 09:20:12 pm

Uuuuum... ya know... I think you're right Ed!

Ed- ""Jen, wouldn't those be swarm cells if they were finished out?....being along the bottom of the frame?""
Please explain 'finished out'? You mean tidy edges?
.....

But at least there weren't 29 live queen cells this time ~ Good Gravy!

What I meant by "finished out" was that if the bees had finished creating viable queen cells (a.k.a. "peanuts") out of those queen cups they would be called a swarm cell being as they were low on the frame. As it was, it was simply a queen cup.

My understanding is that a swarm cell is at or along the bottom of the frames and sometimes on the end bars. Supercedures are towards the top of the frame and emergency cells are out in the field of the frame. Normally there are only a few supercedure cells whereas there is normally an abundance of swarm cells.

I'm not sure about the number of emergency cells, though...the bees are in a rush to make a queen and will modify a normal worker cell into a queen cell...queens made by emergency methods are stated as most of the time being sub-par queens normally because they are fed and matured in a non-optimum queen cell that can keep the larvae from feeding properly during development. The emergency cell is started from a worker cell...it is drawn straight out of the worker cell and then turns downward. The royal jelly is in the bottom of the cell and the "bend" can restrict the queen larva from accessing it. OTS queen rearing takes advantage of the bees instinct to finish building what it sees as the start of a queen cell. The slight tearing of the lower portion of the worker cell wall allows the bees to build the queen cell downward at a favorable (negligible) angle rather than at a sharp angle. At least that's my take on it...I'm sure someone will straighten me out on it if I've got it wrong.

Basically, if you see a nice perpendicular queen cell (swarm or supercedure) it will probably produce a well-fed, healthy queen. If you see a cell that comes off the face of the comb and then turns downward that one might not be as healthy.

Ed

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #19 on:** May 14, 2014, 12:22:28 am »

Quote from: Jen on May 13, 2014, 09:47:49 pm

OK.. THAT, is a picture right there... Where were you 30 years ago Jaybird?

When I get a similar picture this weekend I'll start a new post for it.. a picture ONLY a beekeeper can understand and appreciate!!!