Author Topic: Two Successful Queen Installations! (Read 9256 times)

Jen · « **on:** May 14, 2014, 01:03:45 pm »

2 out of 3? I'll take it!

Third queen installation went swimmingly. No complaints about the appearance of this hive.

Questions tho, of course

AH HA! the first time I have detected an egg in a queen cup now turned queen cell. Took my tweezers and pulled it open for viewing. Good visual learning here ~ And She's Outta There!

Then noticed the very irregular brood capping. Knowing that the live bees that are in this hive are not the product of the new queen, it seems that queen and bees are not putting their head together. But that may not be the case. I left these frames as is and will watch over the summer.

efmesch · « **Reply #1 on:** May 14, 2014, 04:29:10 pm »

Jen, based on the pictures you've posted, I'm starting to think that what you've been calling queen cells are really drone cells. At any rate, those longer than "normal" cells sticking out in pics #1 , #3 and #4 are definitely drone cells that developed in worker cells. I didn't spot any queen cells in any of the pics.
It could be that the old queen was running out of sperm and was laying unfertilized eggs mixed in with fertilized eggs. That could be the reason why the hive was raisng queens,[if they really were queen cells that you saw] from fertilized eggs, in an attempt to replace her before she totally ran out of sperm.

apisbees · « **Reply #2 on:** May 14, 2014, 05:11:43 pm »

It is an egg in a queen cup in picture one or as you stated the start of a queen cell. What is the origins of this hive the over wintered queen, or one of the queens that that we're produced to lead the old colony? The brood looks spotty aether a queen that had not settled into laying or poorly mated or as Ef said is running out of sperm

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #3 on:** May 14, 2014, 10:08:35 pm »

I can see the egg in that one despite my eyes.. Good spot Jen!

I am going to assume this is one of the replacement queens from the title etc...

I am not overly impressed with all the drone brood mixed in, but if she was banked she may kick in and do well.. they may try to supersede her because of the laps in good brood, but should stop trying to do that once she is going well. I would keep an eye on her and the brood pattern and see if it evens out over the next couple of weeks,, if it remains as spotty as that, with all the drone cells, I would ask for a replacement from the breeder.. Give her a bit and see if she evens out.

Jen · « **Reply #4 on:** May 14, 2014, 10:19:28 pm »

Yep it is!

Scott ""but if she was banked she may kick in and do well..""

'Banked' meaning?

Yes I remember Perry also saying that it might take a new queen a bit to get it down. And remember too that these are the bees from the original swarmy queen. So I believe patience is in order

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #5 on:** May 14, 2014, 11:08:59 pm »

If she was put in a cage so she couldnt lay while the breeder waited for the other queens to prove themselves, get mated etc...

If they had her producing and needed her nuc for a new queen, they put her in a cage and put the cage in a queen bank. the bees in this bank will care for her, feed her through the wire etc, but she cant lay. If she was banked for a few days while the other queens were prepared she will need to get her innards kicked back into high gear again... Just one possibility among many.

Lburou · « **Reply #6 on:** May 14, 2014, 11:31:57 pm »

I had a queen laying like that last fall and ended up pinching her after a month (in October) and combining those bees with some others with a queen. For your sake, I hope her laying pattern gets better. At least they haven't swarmed yet

Jen · « **Reply #7 on:** May 14, 2014, 11:43:15 pm »

Lee - (whispering) Shhhhh, I'm not talking about swarming right now, cause I don't want to jinx it.

Been pondering the combining thing as a last resort.

I am new at this requeening thing, but sometimes I think men are impatient. I'm going to wait a while for her to figure it out.

I may have to eat crow, but I want to give her more of a chance than one month.

Always appreciate your input Lee ~

pistolpete · « **Reply #8 on:** May 15, 2014, 02:21:04 am »

I think you're right to call for a bit of patience. If I recall the timing right, this queen was released about two weeks ago? Give her another two weeks to get into laying shape and by then all the brood will be hers and you can evaluate. A lot of cells in those frames are plugged with nectar or pollen, which also makes for a spotty pattern. If you have one, try inserting a nice clean drawn frame in the middle of the brood nest and see what she does with it. Like Scott said, right now there are too many drones where they should not be.

efmesch · « **Reply #9 on:** May 15, 2014, 03:20:34 am »

Pistol said--- If you have one, try inserting a nice clean drawn frame in the middle of the brood nest and see what she does with it.

He's made a very important point and suggestion. If a new queen has inherited frames with spotty laying and partially filled cells of nectar and pollen, she' will have a hard time setting things straight and will waste a lot of time looking for empty cells in which to lay. The result will be that she will continue a bad laying pattern--not because she is faulty but because that is what she has to work with. Adding a clean drawn frame will give her the space for uninterrupted organized laying while the old spotty brood empties out and the bees can organize things for her continued organized laying.

Lburou · « **Reply #10 on:** May 15, 2014, 09:10:03 pm »

Quote from: efmesch on May 15, 2014, 03:20:34 am

Pistol said--- If you have one, try inserting a nice clean drawn frame in the middle of the brood nest and see what she does with it.

He's made a very important point and suggestion. If a new queen has inherited frames with spotty laying and partially filled cells of nectar and pollen, she' will have a hard time setting things straight and will waste a lot of time looking for empty cells in which to lay. The result will be that she will continue a bad laying pattern--not because she is faulty but because that is what she has to work with. Adding a clean drawn frame will give her the space for uninterrupted organized laying while the old spotty brood empties out and the bees can organize things for her continued organized laying.

I agree as well, but couldn't find the words to say it so well.

Jen · « **Reply #11 on:** May 15, 2014, 10:08:22 pm »

HA! Now SEE! Some female thing kept niggling in my head that I didn't want to lop off Queen Anne's head just because she didn't produce a son for Henry.... for cryin' out loud!! And they offed her way too young, she still could have done it I'm Sure Of It!

Thanks Ef for your wonderful lesson here ~ You saved a Queen today

Jen · « **Reply #12 on:** May 17, 2014, 12:47:50 am »

Ef- ""Adding a clean drawn frame will give her the space for uninterrupted organized laying while the old spotty brood empties out and the bees can organize things for her continued organized laying.""

This might be the best I can do for a blank frame of drawn comb. I could put it back into it's original hive for a couple more weeks, what do you think?

pistolpete · « **Reply #13 on:** May 17, 2014, 01:07:05 am »

If you don't have a clean drawn frame to put in there, then don't worry about it. Your queen will get things organised eventually. It's just a technique for evaluating the quality of a queen, not really something that's essential to the health and prosperity of the hive.

Now that you have the genetics under control, let them do their thing in peace for a couple of weeks. Digging through the hives is a wonderful learning tool for the bee keeper, but every time you do the colony has to spend the next 10 to 24 hours fixing up all the comb and propolis. If you multiply that by 20 inspections in a year, that's a lot of lost production.

I end up doing a lot of inspections and manipulations in the spring (basically last week of April to first week of June) then I don't touch my hives until the end of August other than to add supers. Everything I need to know is to be seen on the hive entrance and the sticky board under the screen.

Jen · « **Reply #14 on:** May 17, 2014, 01:30:38 am »

Sounds like a good process there. So, from June - August, you would lift the lid and see when there is enough crowding to add another super.. right?

Yes I use a sticky board and screen bottom board as well.

pistolpete · « **Reply #15 on:** May 17, 2014, 01:43:06 am »

Yes, that's basically the process. When a super is about 80% full, I rotate the capped frames in the middle of the box to the outside edges and add another box. Once the swarming season is done and I have young queens installed I don't really worry about crowding. They can't really over crowd 3 or 4 deep boxes anyway.

efmesch · « **Reply #16 on:** May 17, 2014, 05:05:41 pm »

Pistol took over nicely while I was "closed down" for the Sabbath.
I have nothing to add to his excellent posts.

iddee · « **Reply #17 on:** May 17, 2014, 05:51:09 pm »

I will add, British Columbia is not northern calif. Adjust the months according to the climate.

Jen · « **Reply #18 on:** May 29, 2014, 01:04:43 am »

Check.. It.. Out! Looking at the first pics and through out this thread it was suggested that this queen may not work out, not mated well maybe, just uncertainty. I appreciate the positive feedback on giving her time to get it together. Thanks! It's been another 10 days and looks like I have a winner queen here!

10 days ago, bees occupied middle 4 frames, not they are out to the edge

I now have a mixture of the original bees, and these lovely caramel colored bees, they're sooo pretty

Eggs all in a row

An investment well worth it

All lumpy mis-shapen brood straightened out

All is peaceful in this queendom

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #19 on:** May 29, 2014, 01:33:03 am »

Dang thats looking good Jen. One sexy looking queen!!