Author Topic: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum (Read 20677 times)

Jen · « **on:** May 14, 2014, 06:55:06 pm »

Whom ever goes foundationless, let yourselves be known

Woody Roberts · « **Reply #1 on:** May 14, 2014, 07:50:59 pm »

Jen · « **Reply #2 on:** May 14, 2014, 08:14:47 pm »

alfredw · « **Reply #3 on:** May 14, 2014, 08:45:12 pm »

I do mostly foundationless.

tbonekel · « **Reply #4 on:** May 14, 2014, 08:54:49 pm »

I'm making the conversion currently to foundationless

G3farms · « **Reply #5 on:** May 14, 2014, 09:16:23 pm »

Sometimes by accident, I will sometimes leave empty frames in the box that has the brood combs from a cut out.

Does putting a shallow frame of honey in a deep box and they finish building comb on the bottom mean I am half way foundation less?!?! $:-\$

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #6 on:** May 14, 2014, 10:01:18 pm »

LOL G..... I reckon that would count as half!!!

You know I do mostly foundation-less Mrs. Jen.

Jen · « **Reply #7 on:** May 14, 2014, 10:38:51 pm »

Yes, I knew that Mr. Scott

just wanted a head count and some opinions

Okay then, I need to order frames for my deep. It was either Apis or Ef that said just put waxed popsicle sticks in the slot on the top bar. I think he means to melt some wax and glue them into the slot.

So I need a different frame than the ones I have here where you insert wired wax with and secure with a shim at the top.

Oh! or wait! can I staple the popsicle sticks between the shim and the frame? Or, should I make things easy and just get the gadget the is designed for the foundationless fashion?

Bsweet · « **Reply #8 on:** May 14, 2014, 10:39:20 pm »

Got some shallows that I use for cut comb, start out with foundation. Once I harvest a frame it goes back without foundation, just about 1/4 - 1/2 inch of comb around the edges. Jim

iddee · « **Reply #9 on:** May 14, 2014, 10:52:51 pm »

Jen, click on the link, then choose style f.
It is Kelley's foundationless frame.

http://www.kelleybees.com/res/uploads/media//Frame-Style-Descriptions.pdf

Jen · « **Reply #10 on:** May 14, 2014, 10:57:09 pm »

I would like to make some cut comb, but I think I have enough on my plate still, so I'll think about that a little later. Like your idea Jim, Thanks!

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #11 on:** May 14, 2014, 10:59:34 pm »

You can use any frame as long as you can provide a guide.. Popsicle sticks etc.. I have seen people cut a milk carton into stips to use as guides. If you get the wedge type frames you can break the wedge out and turn it sideways and nail it back in that way for a guide.
I have had frames of both wax and plastic that were messed up, so I ripped the foundation out and dropped the frame back in with NO guide. As long as they go back in between frames of drawn foundation they will usually fill the frame perfectly, even with no guide to go from.
Paint stir sticks, pieces of plastic foundation cut down, anything that will give them a place to festoon from will usually work.
My frames are cut to a point with two 45 degree angles and that serves the purpose well. Use the imagination, and take pictures!

Woody Roberts · « **Reply #12 on:** May 14, 2014, 11:03:03 pm »

I use the wedge type frame made for wired foundation. Pop the wedge off, turn it on edge with three spots of glue.

I've used Popsicle sticks, 3/4" chamfer, paint stir sticks, little strips of foundation, wax and plastic and when dropped between two drawn frames nothing at all.

The wedge is the handiest for me because it comes with the frame. All of the above works just as well.

I didn't start out with the intention of going foundationless. I put a couple in so they could draw some drone comb. If you mix wax and plastic foundation in a hive with foundationless frames no matter where it's at they will draw all the foundationless first. The wax next and if forced to will finally draw the plastic.

This has been my experience with my bees, I can't speak for anyone else.

Yes I get a lot of drone comb. They raise drones in early then backfill it with honey.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #13 on:** May 14, 2014, 11:05:20 pm »

I can verify everything woody said with similar experience.

Woody Roberts · « **Reply #14 on:** May 14, 2014, 11:05:48 pm »

Quote from: alfredw on May 14, 2014, 08:45:12 pm

I do mostly foundationless.

Hey!
I just noticed your post count. Let me be the first to say welcome.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #15 on:** May 14, 2014, 11:09:57 pm »

Indeed! Welcome AlfredW !!!!

tecumseh · « **Reply #16 on:** May 15, 2014, 04:24:40 am »

not to rub anyone wrong here.... which is to say if this or that is your decision, that is perfectly ok by me.

I raise bee for a purpose. originally this purpose was a small quantity of honey production for the local community to which a few years later I added the production of bees and queen for the local area and most recently to assist in research here at the Texas A&M Bee lab. no foundation is imho in direct conflict with ALL of these purpose. not so surprisingly the ideas behind no foundation sounds appealing but application almost never works out like some idea < and invariable the sales pitch of these ideas ALWAYS avoids the nasty detail of application. even at the bee lab when folks do purely growth type studies small strips of started foundation are used in frames to give these bees at least something of a head start.

Woody Roberts · « **Reply #17 on:** May 15, 2014, 05:48:07 am »

Tec
I don't understand what your saying.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #18 on:** May 15, 2014, 09:44:01 am »

not so surprisingly the ideas behind no foundation sounds appealing but application almost never works out like some idea < and invariable the sales pitch of these ideas ALWAYS avoids the nasty detail of application.

Not quite sure I understand either... I get the idea that you dislike foundation-less? Like you said, I am OK with that. I do have to say that with the exception of trying to extract fresh comb, I have not had more issues than I did when I used all foundation, either plastic or wax. I actually have LESS issues than I did with plastic, though probably a few more issues than with wax foundation. the trade off with the wax is that I have less time involved putting the wax in and wiring it, as well as less cost because I dont have to buy the wax foundation. I have also found, in cleaning out old wired wax frames that I have a BUCKET of little wires. Cleaning out wired wax foundation is almost as annoying as installing it, at least when it comes to being spoiled by foundation-less.. I run my pocket knife around the frame and put it back in... takes about a minute and I dont have to have other frames on standby..
The queen producer that lives a few miles from me has given me a lot of guff about using foundation-less. He said it JUST didn't work out for him.. After spending some time with him, I can understand why.. he farms and does the bees.. Honey and queen production.. he wants to snap in foundation, drop the frame in and GO... he extracts the same way. fast..
Foundation-less is NOT for everyone. Each foundation style has advantages and disadvantages... well, maybe not wired wax... it only has one advantage, the rest are disadvantages

Jack likes the wax, Squirt and perry like plastic, Woody and I like foundation-less...
I still have plastic, and wired wax in my hives. As time passes, the amount of plastic and wired wax are diminishing..

I just don't see the downside, or as you said, the nasty detail of application?
If you elaborate I may well agree with you, I just find the ease, cost and benefit out weigh the difficulty.
Scott

riverbee · « **Reply #19 on:** May 15, 2014, 10:52:59 am »

and for those who keep top bar hives tec?

to answer jens question, i switched out wax frames to waxed plastic for ease of convenience. i still have some wax frames in both deeps and supers. the only time i use foundation-less is for comb honey in a super. i don't use any starter strips, just a bead of wax in the grooves to start, thereafter, after the comb is cut off, there is enough wax remaining on the frame to give the bees a good start.