Author Topic: Help! (Read 9591 times)

crazy8days · « **on:** May 18, 2014, 01:15:09 pm »

It's been a week since I checked my hives. Been cold and rainy. Just finished checking my 4 hives. 3 out of 4 have swarm cell galore. My plan was to split when my queens arrive but that won't be till first of June. I have 1 swarm trap on site about 150' away. What should I do? All I have done today was reverse boxes. That lower had bees but not much in eggs. Should I get a few more swarm traps out here? Get them closer? Hope they use them? I read walk away splits aren't the greatest. Most times I can find the queens. Not today. Not a one! Help!

Jen · « **Reply #1 on:** May 18, 2014, 01:21:14 pm »

Well Crazy... it will be interesting to hear this thread, cause some say leave the swarm cells, and some say get rid of all but one, and some say when you introduce you new queens get rid of all swarm cells. I'll chime in along the way.

One of my hive that came from one of my swarms had 29 loaded queen cells...

iddee · « **Reply #2 on:** May 18, 2014, 01:44:04 pm »

Split and put cells in both halves, or all 3, depending on how many hives you want.

Riverrat · « **Reply #3 on:** May 18, 2014, 02:27:11 pm »

Yep what Iddee said. When splitting a hive ready to swarm you have a better chance of 2 surviving hives than a walk away split where you are letting them build queen cells after the split. If hives are heavy in bees you can split into 2, 3, or even 4 nucs at times. At this point you have 2 choices split and hope they make it or let them swarm and most like lose the swarm.

Jen · « **Reply #4 on:** May 18, 2014, 02:28:32 pm »

Crazy- "'Just finished checking my 4 hives. 3 out of 4 have swarm cell galore."'

Iddee, not sure you read this right... he said the 3 out of 4 hives have swarm cells galore! Lots of swarm cells!

Crazy- Swarm traps would be fine, but better get them baited and out there so the scout bees can find them well before they decide to swarm, no one knows when that will happen.

Here's a thought: You could split two or three times right now, putting swarm cells into each nuc, if a queen hatches, so be it. Then when your queens come, you will have to get the queens and queen cells out of the nucs, Absolutely All Of Them, leave the nucs queenless for 24 or so hours. Then introduce your new queens.

I'm also still listening for other advice.

Slowmodem · « **Reply #5 on:** May 18, 2014, 03:18:48 pm »

Is there a good distance from the hives to put a swarm trap? Will they move to the next empty hive in the yard, or is there a minimum distance from the hives to place traps?

crazy8days · « **Reply #6 on:** May 18, 2014, 03:42:01 pm »

So should I split the 3 hives in half? Or make 1 nuc off each or a couple nucs? Take the queen to another bee yard? 1 frame with queen cells in each nuc. Get rid of rest? I've never split a hive!

Jen · « **Reply #7 on:** May 18, 2014, 03:47:09 pm »

Greg- ""Will they move to the next empty hive in the yard, or is there a minimum distance from the hives to place traps?""

?? Whaaaaat ??

iddee · « **Reply #8 on:** May 18, 2014, 04:55:03 pm »

They prefer to go a distance from home.

You can split into as many nucs as you want, as long as you have cells for each and 3 frames of brood and supplies.
If you find the queen, remove her from the original location. Leave cells in the original location. You can move her 10 feet or across the field. Doesn't matter. I never destroy swarm cells. The bees are capable. A 3 frame nuc will not swarm, even if it has multiple cells

Perry · « **Reply #9 on:** May 18, 2014, 05:36:14 pm »

I would find and locate the queen(s), set them up in 5 frame nucs with frames (with no queen cells) of bees, and then split what's left up into 2 and leave a couple cells in each.
If they have cells on the go, the original queens are gonna leave so grab them while you can.

crazy8days · « **Reply #10 on:** May 18, 2014, 05:50:52 pm »

Perry, splitting what's left do I need to move these hives to a different location? Foraging bees?

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #11 on:** May 18, 2014, 07:05:20 pm »

Foragers will go back to the main hive, if you DONT move them to another yard, so make sure to feed them and reduce the entrances. If you can take them somewhere else for a week it will keep the foragers in those boxes, then you could move them back home.

I'd do what Iddee and Perry said. Split out the old queens and divide the rest up evenly. If you have new queens coming, you can always replace the old queens, or a few of the new ones if the queens you have ordered are special.. vsh etc... You can also OFF a couple of those swarm queens and recombine the nuc you split off to bring the original hives back to being production hives. If any of the new queens dont seem to be doing well you can recombine etc, etc... The main thing at the moment is preventing swarming.

Slowmodem · « **Reply #12 on:** May 18, 2014, 07:25:01 pm »

Quote from: Jen on May 18, 2014, 03:47:09 pm

Greg- ""Will they move to the next empty hive in the yard, or is there a minimum distance from the hives to place traps?""

?? Whaaaaat ??

If I have a swarm trap close to the hive that will swarm, will they go next door to the baited trap or does the baited trap have to be 100 feet away before they'd be interestd?

Jen · « **Reply #13 on:** May 18, 2014, 07:49:00 pm »

Crazy- ""splitting what's left do I need to move these hives to a different location? Foraging bees?""

I didn't move my hives further than right here in this pic. I just stacked them next to each other and put the 'stick, twig, leaf' thing loosely over the entrance at dusk, so the foraging bees would reorient in the morning. It Worked!

crazy8days · « **Reply #14 on:** May 18, 2014, 07:52:46 pm »

How in the heck do you ever get any honey if you have to split every year!!! Season 3 for me isn't starting off to well. I want to expand so I can produce more honey. But, if every spring I have to split how? All my queens are last years stock. Wheres the face icon smashing it's head in the wall!!!!! GRR!

DMLinton · « **Reply #15 on:** May 18, 2014, 07:54:11 pm »

From a guy whose first bees will not be here for a few more weeks...

It is good practice to have swarm traps set out about the bee yard in any case.

I would be wondering why so many colonies are planning swarming. Cold and rainy? Sounds like it could be a shortage of food so the bees are figuring to find greener (and sunnier) pastures. I would be checking to ensure lots of stores. If stores are meager, some feeding might be in order.

Now that swarming arrangements are under way, swarm them! Trying to prevent swarming is futile. Ask Jen. The objective is to let them swarm by your rules. Grab the queens and a few frames and put them in a new boxes. There, the queens will be happy (notwithstanding the stores point above). Make nucs out of the rest and let them amuse themselves making queens until your purchased queens arrive. Don't forget, you only need loads of bees in each hive during the main honey flow. The rest of the time only enough to look after the queen are required.

Combine nucs when new queens arrive or for the honey flow. Make sure they have food now though.

DMLinton · « **Reply #16 on:** May 18, 2014, 07:57:24 pm »

Quote from: crazy8days on May 18, 2014, 07:52:46 pm

How in the heck do you ever get any honey if you have to split every year!!! Season 3 for me isn't starting off to well. I want to expand so I can produce more honey. But, if every spring I have to split how? All my queens are last years stock. Wheres the face icon smashing it's head in the wall!!!!! GRR!

Just because you split doesn't mean they hives have to stay split. Split to manage swarming and, when the main honey flows comes, pull the queens and combine as necessary to make monster hives. You can save the queens you pulled in little nucs are pinch them and rely on the new queens that will be made during the honey flow. You get a lot more honey this way.

If all of your queens are from last year, that is probably part of the problem. Year two, they get wanderlust. Simple solution is as mentioned before - swarm them - by your rules.

Perry · « **Reply #17 on:** May 18, 2014, 08:53:00 pm »

Quote from: DMLinton on May 18, 2014, 07:57:24 pm

Year two, they get wanderlust. Simple solution is as mentioned before - swarm them - by your rules.

crazy8days · « **Reply #18 on:** May 18, 2014, 09:24:52 pm »

Ok, so grab the queen and 3 frames of brood. 1 frame of honey, 1 frame of pollen. Make nuc for each swarming hive. Out of the "mother" hive split in 2 single deeps. Divide evenly with swarm cells. If I split during the day all the foragers will go back to the main hive. So, split with just nurse bees need fed. Right?

Now, these hives have supers on them. What should I do with them? Leave them on the hives with foragers?

My bee yard has limited space. I was thinking about taking the 3 nucs to my house. Till I can get my new bee yard established. Nectar flow is already on. Dandelions are close to being done for. Trees are starting. I would like to keep the nucs to build on their own. Can the main split be combined so they can produce honey? How long do I need to wait to combined?

DMLinton · « **Reply #19 on:** May 18, 2014, 09:46:32 pm »

I think we need to be sure we understand the conditions in your bee yard and your objectives. As I understand it, the weather is rainy and cold, the main (is it the main?) nectar flow is getting under way, your main objective is to produce some honey and your secondary objective is to grow as you go.

If the above is correct, you do not want to reduce your colony size any more than absolutely necessary else you will compromise honey production.. What is absolutely necessary is to make the queen think she has successfully swarmed. Hence, pull her out and make a nuc. Unless the weather is unusually cold for the season, I don't think you need to put three frames of brood in the nuc. One frame may be enough along with some stores, an empty frame or two and enough bees to look after the queen and brood. Do not put any swarm cells in the nucs else you will defeat your purpose. It would be a very good idea to feed the nucs.

Do not split the deeps but, rather, either leave them intact or leave the strongest hive and combine the six remaining deeps into two three deep hives. Leave honey supers on. I would off all but two or three swarm cells in each hive, which will keep the bees happy until your purchased queens turn up. A few bees will look after the few swarm cells and a lot of bees will make honey, which will be surplus because there is only a limited amount of brood to consuming it.