Author Topic: Swarms Traps: How close is to close to a new hive?  (Read 7074 times)

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Offline CpnObvious

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Swarms Traps: How close is to close to a new hive?
« on: May 19, 2014, 08:43:59 am »
I'll be installing my new packages this weekend, the first hive in each location.  It also looks like we're about to hit peak swarm season in my area soon, so I want to set up a couple traps (just in case I get lucky).  Where I'm looking will be about 100'-130' from one hive, on the other side of my house.  The other would be maybe 200'-300' away kind of through the woods from the other new hive.  Do you feel I'm at risk of my new hive(s) moving into a swarm trap?  Are these locations too close to the (soon-to-be) newly established hives?

Offline blueblood

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Re: Swarms Traps: How close is to close to a new hive?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2014, 08:47:34 am »
I would say you are safe from swarms for the first year with those brand new colonies.   I had swarm traps 15 feet in front of my hives and they ignored them and hung on pine trees in the immediate area.  So, don't think you traps close will hurt anything either.  I would try to put them where you know there has been swarm activity in the last year or so.  I tried this theory and it has paid off so far.

Offline CpnObvious

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Re: Swarms Traps: How close is to close to a new hive?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2014, 08:53:24 am »
I would try to put them where you know there has been swarm activity in the last year or so.

This whole swarm trap thing is kind of a crap shoot for me.  I've never in my life seen a swarm.  I just want to see what happens and maybe get some free bees out of the deal.

~~ Thank you for the other info.  Wasn't too sure with a newly established hive.  I'll be more than upset if a package disappears within a day or two of installing it... Well, if I ever lose them.

Offline iddee

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Re: Swarms Traps: How close is to close to a new hive?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2014, 08:55:36 am »
Swarm traps will not affect your hives one way or the other. I would not put lure in them the first 2 weeks you have yours. The lure may cause them to move before they have brood, I don't know. They won't move after they have brood.
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Re: Swarms Traps: How close is to close to a new hive?
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2014, 09:03:45 am »
It will take two or three days for the queen to get out of the cages. With luck, and some feeding they will already be drawing new comb for her and think of the new hive as home.
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Offline blueblood

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Re: Swarms Traps: How close is to close to a new hive?
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2014, 09:23:55 am »
I think it can be less of a crap shoot if you could find out where other keeps or folks in general have seen swarms lately.  I would go for a walk, urban or rural, and look for bee activity on the clover and such.  Try to see what direction they fly off to.  Not always a sure thing but at least you know there is activity in the area.  Ask friend/family area to put a trap out.

Offline Intheswamp

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Re: Swarms Traps: How close is to close to a new hive?
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2014, 10:45:44 am »
CpnObvious, it sounds like you're wanting to put the traps on your property...the sizing sounds like a large lot, maybe a 2-3 acres?   

My bee yard is in full sun all day so isn't so close to trees that they cast a shadow on the hives until about sundown.  But, there is a perimeter of them and a rising terrain that surrounds the yard.  Pine trees to the north, west, and east....rising ground topped with the house, privet, pecan trees to the south.  The swarms (that I saw/caught) this year went in three cardinal directions...north, west, and south.  I did not see any swarms to the east, but the tree line is farther away so may be why I didn't find any in that direction due to simply not physically checking there as often.  I had one swarm in the pines to the north and one to the west but three or four to the south into the privets which meant the bees had to fly uphill.  None of the swarms flew with the prevailing southwest wind.

The following is my experience and applies to my location and my bees.  It may not work like this anywhere else or it may be the basic way it works everywhere.  What I've noticed is that when a swarm issues from one of my hives the cloud of bees fly aimlessly for a couple of minutes as more and more bees spill out of the hive to join and form the swarm cloud.  It seems the  center of mass of the cloud of bees is probably around 20' high...the bees fly above and below that height but at least several feet off the ground.  Then almost imperceptibly I notice the swarm cloud start to move in a direction.  As the cloud moves you can walk along with it, an incredible thing to take part in!!! :)  As my swarms encounter the tree or bush perimeter they collide with some limbs and quickly some bees land on a spot in the limbs.  I'm not sure if the queen *has* to land on it to get other bees to gather there or if she can be like the other ones and follow other worker bees' lead to land there.  Whatever the case, it seems the obstacles tend to stop the swarm cloud's floating away and gets them to cluster there...for a while.   

I *know* the bees will almost always land where ever the queen lands, I'm just not sure about her joining a cluster of workers that is in the process of forming...anybody want to clue me in?  ??? 

The reason I wonder about the queen is that my first year all of my swarms landed in the briar patch in front of the hives...for some reason the queens that year were taking off from the hives but not flying very high and encountering the uphill terrain in front of the hives to the south.  The queens apparently would hit a briar bush and tumble to the ground or land on a branch and the rest of the bees would join her.  I don't think it was the workers' choice to land in the briars to begin with.  After the first couple of swarms that year I'm not so sure, though...the reason being the rest of the swarms landed within probably 5-6 feet of each other and one landed *exactly* on the same spot so I'm confident they were working off pheromones left by the previous queens/swarms.  There was no phsical landmark (a bush or stump or anything) for them to home in on.  I had gotten tired of picking bees out of the briars so I placed an old broken lawn chair on the spot....the last swarm of that season landed on the slatted wooden bottom of that chair...looked like a cusion on it, but a big cluster hanging beneath it...I sure wish I had put that chair there earlier!!!  ;)

Whatever the case with the queen, what I'm getting at is that obstacles in the path of the swarm tends to *somewhat* contain the swarm within the confines of the area around my bee yard.  I've had a couple of traps sitting out for the last couple of years but haven't had any takers yet.  One of these days I'm going to vamp up putting swarm traps up in the four directions around the yard....for now, though, I'll knock the swarms off the limbs into a bucket...and maybe, just maybe a swarm will find one of my traps. ;)

If you have some perimeter obstacles around your bee yard then those would might be good areas to put a trap but definitely keep your eyes on the limbs and bushes there...make it a habit to look up and around every time that you're out there...that way you will get very familiar with the upper stories of the trees and bushes (look low, too, my first year swarms were all on the ground!) and will be able to detect odd shadowy shapes hanging from branches that "aren't supposed to be there".  If you come to a spot away from your hives and you see more than the normal amount of bees flying in that area inspect the surroundings carefully being as there will be bees flying around the swarm clusters at times.  Also, if you're walking by a thicket and feel like someone/thing is watching you check carefully...it could be thousands of little eyes checking you out...the last swarm of the season was like that for me, I kept looking up in the branches where a swarm had landed previously but didn't see anything...then something made me look on the ground...there they were, laying there like a golden door mat on the ground...really glad I didn't step on'em!!! :o       

The swarm clusters will hang there for 5 minutes or several days...sometimes they'll even start drawing comb there and establish their colony on that limb.  But, don't bet on them staying there for even the 5 minutes....get them in a hive as quickly as possible because once the bees break the cluster and take off (in my experience) they are....G.O.N.E. :(

Now, if you're interested in putting traps at other places, that's a whole'nuther can of worms.  ;D

Just sharing what I've experienced at my yard...I'm sure it's different at other folks' yards and will be at yours,...and it kinda deviated from swarm trapping but maybe some of it will help you.  Have fun and happy trapping!!!!

Ed

Offline CpnObvious

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Re: Swarms Traps: How close is to close to a new hive?
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2014, 12:04:21 pm »
Ed (and everyone else),

This was actually a great help!  Over the past few months I've effectively been an information sponge, soaking in all the bee info I can!  I've only had to re-ask/lookup a couple of things more than once!  (for me, this is a GREAT accomplishment!  Only happens when something truly has my interest!)

I even think what you wrote may keep me from cutting down an "obstacle" I was going to get rid of... I may just trim it a bit now.  Some of this makes me want to ask one of my neighbors if I can put one at his place.  it's probable be about 1/4-1/2 mile as the bee flies from my house...  And may work out because he has some nice fields that I bet are enjoyed by numerous bees.