Want To Get This Deep Filled Out

[Jen]

This is our 'bare bones' hive, the last swarm we caught, a small one, we had no bait, no pulled frames for them, just a medium and 10 brand new frames. We put it in the yard and walked away. It's going bedonkers!   

I put a second medium on a couple of weeks ago, the bees are pulling real good and now there is the beginning of egg laying.

Because we want our hives to start out with one deep, I was advised to put the deep on top of the first medium so the bees could pull wax, and then we can switch the two hives later in the year, ending with the deep on the bottom. So today I did that. Buuuut, now the second medium has been split from the first medium. I feel like I have broken their rhythm, and I'll bet the queen is in that second medium which is now on top.

Scratching head, any advice?

[DonMcJr]

You touched on something I was finding out could be a problem...the folks using all mediums are going to have a hard time getting Nucs or help with "a frame of eggs" unless they start making medium Nucs and you know another beekeeper that uses Mediums that can help you with a frame of eggs if your hive gets queenless...

So I was going to start suggesting....if you want all mediums at least have your bottom box a deep for the reason above...

[Jen]

Hi Don - I had a feeling this might be confusing so I reiterated some of my words here ~

Jen said "Because we want our hives to start out with one deep on the bottom, I was advised to put the empty deep on top of the first medium so the bees could get going on it pulling wax, and then we can switch the two hives later in the year, ending with the deep on the bottom. So today I did that. Buuuut, now the second medium has been split from the first medium. I feel like I have broken their rhythm, and I'll bet the queen is in that second medium which is now on top.""

Mkay, so reread this, maybe it will make more sense 

[apisbees]

Reopen the hive place all frames with honey in the box for up top. All frames with brood in the bottom with the queen if you see her in the top box. Then place the deep because the top will be mostly honey or frames that are only partly pulled out use a queen excluder. the top super is bated so the bees will continue to move thru the excluder to store or get at the honey. If you have more frames containing brood than you have space for in the bottom super place the extras in the super above the Queen excluder but go back into the top super in 5 days and destroy any queen cells the bees may have started in the top box.

[pistolpete]

Jen,  you started with and M-M configuration, Now you've gone to M-D-M and at the end of the year you want to be D-M-M.    Bees like expanding their brood nest down, they also like storing honey above the brood.  The way a hive normally starts out is with the brood nest near the top cover and then the brood nest expands down and a honey cap forms over the brood nest.    I think you'll be fine the way you are now, but you may have split up the brood nest.  They'll fix it, but you may want to just leave the hive in the current configuration till spring.   In the spring the bottom medium will be empty and easy to move up.

[riverbee]

oops, i think there is some confusion.
jen your first medium, the one you started out with, keep it on the bottom, the 2nd medium you added a couple of weeks ago, put that on top the first medium.  put your deep on top of that.  so MMD......., feed to help them draw it out.  this is a great deal of foundation to draw.

"Because we want our hives to start out with one deep, I was advised to put the deep on top of the first medium so the bees could pull wax"

here is the confusion in part, i think some of us, or me did not realize you were using 2 mediums, so you were advised to place the deep on top of the first medium.  my humble apologies. 

hope i made sense?  so 1st medium on the bottom, 2nd medium next, then your deep.  it's okay to switch it back around, do it tomorrow, yep the queen could be in the 2nd medium, but you may have separated the brood in the two medium boxes with the deep in betweeen. 

"I feel like I have broken their rhythm, and I'll bet the queen is in that second medium which is now on top."

the bees will forgive you for rearranging the nursery a little.....no harm done.........


ps fixed your pic....

[LazyBkpr]

   I am still unclear about the reason for the deep, and would think it would make a mess of trying to swap frames around when needed, but am quite OK with the decision if thats how you want it to go..    As of this spring I have one single hive left with a deep on it, I will rotate it out next spring when the bees are in the top medium. When it is rotated out I will have 4 deeps stored in the shed, set aside in the event I ever do need them, but I keep them buried so I am not tempted to use them.
   I have had no issues at all putting mediums on top of the deeps to be filled. If I were to add an un drawn deep I would simply put it on as Mrs. River suggested and leave it in that location. When it is filled put the second medium above that. The only issue I might have is that if they begin filling the deep with nectar/honey you have no way to move the frames up, so keep a close eye on them and have the second medium on before they reach that point.  When spring arrives, put the deep on the bottom...   Not sure how you will rotate the boxes if you WANT the deep on the bottom all the time.  With luck your bees will always move down on their own rather than voluntarily locking themselves in the top box/s.

   As far as getting medium Nuc's.. I have no problem finding them. A LOT of beekeepers in this area are going to all mediums. Some opting for 8 frame medium boxes exclusively.  I installed my Nuc's Saturday, in two weeks they will be ready for a second medium, two to three weeks after that they will be ready for the third. Packages and splits will be ready for second boxes as soon as I get the memorial day festivities over with. By the end of June they will be ready for me to make Queens and do summer splits for winter nucs.

[riverbee]

scott, i think i read somewhere jen's hubby wanted to go with a deep medium configuration.....?

just my HO, i would leave the 2 mediums as they are and the deep in it's place this year, (1st med, 2nd med, D ) depending on certain factors, it needs to be drawn out and filled. if in a perfect scenario, the bees draw this deep out, space for the queen to lay and then later the bees will prepare it for winter, i would leave the deep in place and not reverse it to the bottom until next spring.  as far as always leaving the deep on the bottom, as you said scott, luck if jen's bees always move down.  i don't reverse my hives unless the bees don't move down. 

[Garden Hive]

I agree with you River...
I'd arrange as you descibed until time to move in spring or manage the move even though it may not be entirely necessary.

I have a couple that has just gotten into the bees. Her father kept bees when she was younger and it has been interesting because she remembers a good bit of very old-school.
It's sort of odd that I still run across many that continue to use the term bottom box. I still see many that want to staple the hive body to the bottom board. And say, well it's going to stay there! And it does have it's use.
Goes along with painting a beautiful scene across multiple boxes. Looks great to start with..... and can remain !

But I don't care for the extra attention that it requires to move frames completely out and about.

So Jen....  the concept of Bottom Box stays there is great in theory. What ever floats your boat.....

My water is not quite so peaceful to allow me to relax and sit at my easel (Hive) and re- paint a mural with bees in it 

Just having fun with it!

[Jen]

It's going to be interesting to see how this pans out. With Scott's thoughts of the deep being filled with nectar/honey has occured to me. That the deep may not turn into a brood box as hubby thinks it's going to. Yes, I will keep a close eye ~

Garden - our good friend has rekindled his want to have a bee hive now that he sees us with ours. He is still old school as well, rediculously so. He built his own 'bottom box' with the bottom board attached. Isn't interested in todays bee situations or the science of. He just wants honey. Aggrivates me.

[Garden Hive]

No point in the aggravation..hehe

I just say well they are yours. Do as you please. Ask if you feel the need!

Some newbees...ask well when do get the honey? Over and Over and Over !!!
I tell some well go in there and get a spoon full now! LOL

[riverbee]

LOL garden hive! enjoyed your earlier post.

jen, that deep will become a brood box.  right now, when comb is drawn, your queen will most likely lay up there and she may utilize all three.  it may become nectar/honey bound, but this is a good thing come fall and winter. keep the center open. solution is as a frame is filled and capped cycle it out, freeze it, save it for fall to place back in there when they need it, and replace with another frame of foundation and let them keep on drawing.  this will depend on your nectar flows. when spring comes your bees will be in the top......that deep, and your queen will have already started laying in it. once reversed to the bottom, your deep is now the brood box.  it may be that she spans the 2nd medium from the deep on top...... lets cross the bridge when you get there......

[LazyBkpr]

lets cross the bridge when you get there......

   well...   Mrs. River...   you KNOW thats easier said than done..   Beekeepers Build bridges, cross them, and even burn a few in their minds nearly EVERY day!!!!     

[riverbee]

LOL scott, very true!

[Jen]

 Scott - "well...   Mrs. River...   you KNOW thats easier said than done..   Beekeepers Build bridges, cross them, and even burn a few in their minds nearly EVERY day!!!!'

     In my case it's not bridges, it's remembering where I left off in the spring, or even yesterday, in order to proceed thru summer, to prepare for fall... so they can survive the winter ...  OOPS! I said the W word, noise thru teeth, sooory geeeez      

[apisbees]

We must remember that Jen lives next to paradise  just down the road from hades if the weather doesn't change and she gets some rain. She can feed a month later in the fall and start 2 months earlier in the spring. She will easily winter in a deep and medium, if the deep stays on top it will be filled with nectar and not brood. Even if it stays above a medium this coming winter it will let the top medium be filled  with honey and extracted.

[riverbee]

yes apis, i am cognizant of jen's location, weather and  feeding, and made suggestions relative to that and also other factors that would concern me.  2 mediums and a deep of undrawn comb foundation.  weather, nectar, pollen, water. at some point,  the bees may stop drawing foundation, given her circumstances it might not get drawn or filled without supplemental feeding.  i suggested placing the deep on top to get that drawn, my HO is if it's placed on the bottom it may go relatively ignored, and also bees cramped in 2 mediums above = we are outta here.  if the bees get this deep fully drawn and filled, great, all the better for the bees for winter stores and to move up into or move it down this year, if not,  in the spring of next year it can be placed on the bottom and becomes the brood box, this is what jen wants to achieve ultimately.  i understand what you are saying. if it were me, i would want to see the frames drawn in all 3 first before i placed a medium on top of the deep for honey extraction.  in a perfect scenario, with all frames drawn in all 3, jen could move the deep to the bottom this year or any configuration she would like.  yes i would agree that jen could easily overwinter in a deep and a medium, but what she has is 2 mediums and one deep.  just my thoughts apis. 

[apisbees]

No arguments with you river. I would not take the deep down to the bottom either but would split the 2 mediums with it cause it would cause the bees to focus more on getting it drawn out sooner. 

[riverbee]

i know that apis.  i guess sometimes we all tend to tell someone how we would do something and either forget their location or we don't explain why we just told them what to do. so for jen and anyone else reading this thread who wants to learn what to do in a situation as hers, i was explaining my method of madness.  not sure if it's the 'right' thing to do. it's just what i would do. i truly respect your perspective.

jen, keep us posted as to how they are doing! 

[Jen]

River and Apis ~ How I enjoy you both, let me count the ways ~~~

After reading the alternatives and ideas, I've decided on keeping the two mediums together and then the deep on top. When I first started this post I had the main medium on the bottom, it is 80% full. I removed the second medium which one frame had eggs. Then, I put on the deep to get it drawn so I could eventually put it on the bottom. Then, I put the second medium on top of the deep.

Full medium, Deep, Medium with a few eggs

But it was niggling me that I had separated the two mediums during egg laying. So I put the two meds back together with the deep on top.

Full medium, medium with one frame of eggs, Deep

When the deep gets drawn, I will put it on the bottom and it will remain on the bottom forever and a day. Then I will build upwards all mediums.

I will watch the deep on top, and move frames so that all will get drawn to some point during the summer. It's sort of an experiment for me.

It's All Good!