Author Topic: Wonky Comb (Read 16035 times)

Jen · « **on:** June 02, 2014, 02:49:23 pm »

We started a nuc in a deep for hubby to take to his dad's place. He's changed his mind and now wants to keep the deep in our yard. I've been adding a frame or two every couple of weeks or as they are filling up, I think there is 7 frames in there now.

All is well, except I'm wondering why they are building like this when the frames are pushed tightly together? and some of the comb is coming up onto the frames, and below the frames.

I remember Apis saying that the bees need more building room. But there are two frames with plasticell that they don't seem to be interested in, such as the pics show ~

blueblood · « **Reply #1 on:** June 02, 2014, 03:48:27 pm »

Ha! I have some frames like that which have been ravished a little my wax moth larvae. Anyway, I have had certain colonies do that. I am thinking it might just be a certain characteristic of certain bees. I hope it hasn't anything to do with plastic.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #2 on:** June 02, 2014, 04:31:53 pm »

Cut it off and put the frame back in. Put it between two drawn frames if possible.
I have them do this on wax and plastic every so often. I think its just because of the room between two undrawn frames.. at least thats the best I can figure out. The only frames I dont have them do this on is... foundation-less... muahahaha...

hehe, no, thats a lie.. bees will make a mess out of anything given enough time and freedom. But it does illustrate that no matter what type of foundation, or no foundation you use SOME bees just have to be contrary. A little melted wax and stick that cross comb to the top bar they would finish it correctly if there was no foundation on the frame. With plastic in there the only option is to cut it free and make them start over. They will eventually get the hint.

If you give them an option.. meaning some wax or foundation-less they will usually ignore the plastic until they were desperate. Give them all plastic and they seem to be more accepting and draw it better. A lot depends on flow too. In a good flow they will draw more than any other time, even if feeding.

kebee · « **Reply #3 on:** June 02, 2014, 04:45:31 pm »

I would not worry about it they will straiten up on down the line, I have it in my hives also.

Ken

Woody Roberts · « **Reply #4 on:** June 02, 2014, 05:50:32 pm »

I've seen that on plastic a few times. I've even seen it a couple times on my frames. Their the type it's best to keep quiet about. They start with F and end with S.
It's pretty rare though that I see it.

Jen · « **Reply #5 on:** June 02, 2014, 06:34:10 pm »

Scott- "The only frames I dont have them do this on is... foundation-less... muahahaha..."

Okay Mr. Snarky Pants! I lost the bra in the 60's

so I'm tempted to loose the foundation on this exapanding nuc. Not so sure tho, it's a support thing ya see.

The only problem I see at this point is I have, I think, three of those plastic frames with the inserts, lots of brood on them. I can see some foundationless going wonky against those frames ~ hmmmmm

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #6 on:** June 02, 2014, 08:13:18 pm »

If you have frames to replace them, begin rotating them to the outside, At each inspection move them over one slot. In a few weeks they will be against the wall, the brood will have emerged and they will be preparing to re purpose them. Move them up to the outer wall of the second box on the next inspection, and by the inspection after that they should be empty or being filled with nectar. Swap them out with another of the bad frames and put a new frame down into the main box on the edge of the brood. Depending on the time of year and flow it might take them a couple weeks to get it filled. Dont rotate again until that frame is nearly done, then rotate in the next until you have all the old ones removed. There is no rush. If it takes a year to rotate them out then let it take a year.
I find the best thing to do with frames I dont like is to IMMEDIATELY discard them when they are rotated out.. if I don't I will find some excuse to re use them again, since they are already drawn...

Jen · « **Reply #7 on:** June 02, 2014, 08:52:13 pm »

Actually I had been doing just this, per your instruction, about two months ago

I started swapping out when the swarm episode happened, then by the time the swarming stopped I had rotated those plastic/inserts back into all of the hives. Siiiiiigh...

I am in the process of moving them out again. Sooo, I guess it would be a good idea to wait until I get the plastics out of there before working on foundationless? scratching head

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #8 on:** June 02, 2014, 08:59:36 pm »

If you want to put a foundation-less frame in. Wait until you are ready to rotate OUT one of the frames with the inserts. Pull it out and drop the foundation-less in between two well drawn combs. They will go to work filling it for you.
If the hive is strong and they have plenty of bees, I actually recomend putting in the foundation-less between two brood combs for the fastest turn around on filling it. Just use extra care the first couple times you pull it out to admire their work, it will be soft.

Jen · « **Reply #9 on:** June 02, 2014, 09:03:59 pm »

Okay!

I'll take some pics of this hive when I go in to cut out the wonky comb in there. They keep building some comb directly under the hole where the feeder jar sits.... crazy bees

Zweefer · « **Reply #10 on:** June 02, 2014, 09:20:10 pm »

Quote from: Jen on June 02, 2014, 09:03:59 pm

Okay! I'll take some pics of this hive when I go in to cut out the wonky comb in there. They keep building some comb directly under the hole where the feeder jar sits.... crazy bees

mine do the same thing!

barry42001 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 02, 2014, 09:41:09 pm »

the only time I've had issue with bees making a cross comb, like that, is when the frames were not squeeze tightly enough together. the only extra space I leave for the two outside frames and that so I have a place to push those frames to take them out. if your frames are tight together and the only extra spaces between outside frames and the wall the bees will usually do what you expect. I did mention that's what they usually do, unfortunately Jen your bees do not seem to be the usual bees lol

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

Jen · « **Reply #12 on:** June 02, 2014, 09:53:07 pm »

Barry, they definately have a mind of their own don't they

I resemble that remark

riverbee · « **Reply #13 on:** June 02, 2014, 10:45:29 pm »

yep, and it's drone sized cells in that wonky comb.

" Their the type it's best to keep quiet about"

........

jen, what scott said in his first post.

pistolpete · « **Reply #14 on:** June 02, 2014, 11:18:50 pm »

This happens to me once in a while too. Always when there are two undrawn frames side by side. Sometimes they build two leaves of comb on the one frame and leave the other one bare. If I catch them soon enough, I just scrape it back to foundation with the hive tool. I don't think it has anything to do with plastic. I run about 80% Pierco all plastic frames and most of them are drawn out beautifully.

Jen · « **Reply #15 on:** June 02, 2014, 11:27:51 pm »

Yeah Pete, that's what happened, the other side of the frame is bare. Weird

tbonekel · « **Reply #16 on:** June 03, 2014, 07:44:51 am »

Quote from: pistolpete on June 02, 2014, 11:18:50 pm

I don't think it has anything to do with plastic. I run about 80% Pierco all plastic frames and most of them are drawn out beautifully.

I think there may be some truth to that. I may try an experiment with some old foundation that has very little wax coating. I wonder what would happen if I placed that between two fully drawn frames. It wouldn't surprise me for them to draw it out like good little soldiers.

Jen · « **Reply #17 on:** June 03, 2014, 12:08:28 pm »

tbone- It's just a personal thing with me and natural wax. I'm in the mind mode of what 'I would like to live in' ~

If I'm given two options.... a house made up entirely of black plastic standing next to a log cabin....

tbonekel · « **Reply #18 on:** June 03, 2014, 01:11:05 pm »

No, I'm totally with you Jen! I'm just always thinking "I wonder if", and most of the time, it gets me in trouble. I just bought a craigslist lot of bee equipment and it came with about 15 brand new plastic frames with black foundation. I don't know if I want it or not. I may use it in the bottom most deep as a brood chamber and see what happens. But, if given a choice, I will choose to go foundationless.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #19 on:** June 03, 2014, 01:34:28 pm »

TBone.. I am pro foundation-less... not so much because I want the bees all natural, but because I hate paying for foundation when I have found no overpowering need to use it. If I get foundation as you have, buying equipment etc, I have no argument with using it.
My greatest lure toward foundation-less is ease. Easier to make the frames. Easier to repair bad spots. Easier to rotate the wax out of the frames, and most importantly easier to cut out queen cells or do cell punch to make queens. Draw backs are, More care when handling fresh foundation and more care is required when extracting.
I think Jen's analogy is pretty close, but consider it a bit more like living in a double wide or a custom stick built house.
Personally.. I would get along just fine in a 1960 10 x 50 trailer house, its the wife that wants the fancy living arrangements.. and since the bees ARE female.......

A better analogy would be that the frames are furniture.. You use what you have until you can get something better. We all want a big cushy Lazy Boy, but sometimes we have to make do with a fold up lawn chair.
Your methods and desires are what determine what type of frame/foundation is a lazy boy or a fold up lawn chair.