What if?

[Noronajo]

I will always be trying to figure out how to prevent swarming - I hate losing my bees so it's always on my mind in the spring. I had two hives at my bee yard 14 miles north of my house that I knew were primed to swarm so I did early splits, put empty frames in crowded brood deeps , saw brood was hatching and being filled with nectar and queen cells started. I pulled the old queen before the queen cells were capped, made a split, and the hive swarmed anyway. The second hive was going the same direction, 2 weeks ago empty queen cells but pulling the old queen didn't work, so I didn't. Last week, 25-30 swarm cells and bazillions of bees- couldn't figure out what to do so did nothing and it rained - and rained some more! Went yesterday and a big black queen was piping her heart out and prancing back and forth on the frames full of almost hatched queens. Don't only virgins pipe? Still didn't know what to do. Went home, slept on it, went back shortly after 7:00- storm is blowing in- not my smartest move. Ten minutes I have the hive lid on the ground and 3 honey supers stacked with the top deep full of bees on top of it. The bottom deep is still on the hive stand and I can hear a queen piping from it as I begin going thru the top deep. I find 5-6 hatched queens, definitely virgins, small, red and piping back and forth. I don't find the black queen but I make a split because the thunder and lightening are crashing and there's too many bees( should have tried 3 deeps, maybe). I know, too long a post but help! What am I overlooking? Yesterday, I even thought of taking off the three almost full supers to keep them fro taking it with them.

[Beeboy]

It's good to see something close to my area posting.

I wish I had a good answer for you, but with the weather we are having it's not a good time to be in the hive, much less making splits. You might just have to let them do what they do, & see what they did when the rain is over. I am not complaining about the rain at all! We have been so dry for the last four years, that it will take a big flood to make me sick of rain.

It sounds like you could maybe make several nuts out of them though if the weather would cooperate.

[Jen]

I think, scratching head, that I would follow beeboy as well. Wait until you have a nice day. Let nature work it's wonder.

I went through a similar situation this spring where I had queens all over the flippin place! 29 live queen cells (not cups) in one hive alone. I was instructed to introduce a new queen. And before putting her in the hive, extract All and Everything that looked like a queen cup or cell. It took me 4 hours to gleen that hive. It worked.

In your case tho, my education to this point is: If you like beautiful gospel singer and she is doing a great job, get rid of all the other cells. But just in case these are queen cell happy bees, you may have to check every 3-4 days, that might be a problem to deal with if  you are 14 miles away ~

I don't know if this is the right answer... but my instinct is leading this way.

This will be a good thread, keep us posted 

[barry42001]

the impulse to swarm is a complicated process, with many variables. the only thing you can do is start eliminating some of the variables. brood chamber congestion, is one of the contributing factors, nectar and pollen coming in faster than a queen can lay eggs. providing space for the brood nest to expand is in critical, providing space for nectar and pollen storage is critical. I believe providing an upper entrance is critical, allowing for workers to bypass entirely the brood chamber

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[LazyBkpr]

You did what you could with the first one, and that is what you have to do. Its called giving it the old college try.  There are times that NOTHING you will do will prevent your hive from swarming..
   IE;
   I split a hive down into nucs, completely busting it down to the bottom box. (medium) Old queen was the first to go into one of the nuc's.  So many bees I made 5 or 6 nucs out of the one hive. I left then the best looking queen cell and two mediums to begin rebuilding from. Five drawn frames in the bottom, four drawn frames in the top. three frames still had brood, and about five frames of bees along with two frames that had capped honey..
    Four or Five days later that hive swarmed with the only virgin available, leaving about a frame and a half of doomed bees.
   I did everything I could think of that would prevent swarming...
     My daughter called and said they landed in the cedar behind the hives.. I couldnt deal with them immediately... it was two and a half hours before I got home, and they were gone...
   I recombined the original queen to the main hive..
   You do your best. TRY to catch them before they get it into their mind to swarm is what works the best.   Once they make the decision it can be HARD to stop them.  Just do what you can. If it works, pat yourself on the back. If it doesnt work... pat yourself on the back anyhow, because you did all you could.

[Jen]

Nicely put Scott ~ 

[Noronajo]

I really know that there's only so much you can do but I just keep thinking wouldn't it be great if just one time I could get all those beautiful busy bees to stay put and pile honey into super after super? And I know that big black queen wasn't a virgin with that badunkadunk butt on her so how come she was piping? Does it ever seem to you there is still a lot of the unknown in beekeeping?

[Jen]

Oh My Gosh Noronajo, you are hilarious! I have the same dream as you my friend! super upon super of honey. I'm into my 4th year and no honey for me yet. We should link arms 

[Noronajo]

Yep, 2011, my "virgin" year and I still don't know nothing! I no sooner get 3 supers on a hive and there they go. I have to admit I do have fun, tho, and if I knew what to expect it might get boring. In the meantime I have another hive in the backyard that'll have to be moved in a few weeks after one of the queens wins, mates and starts laying. I already have 3 hives back there . Up to 11 hives from 7 now and surely some of my 5 gallon buckets will have honey in them this year.

[Jen]

I sure hope so! I'm up to 4 from 1 this year. I really only wanted 2, we'll see how it goes 

[Perry]

Good thread. 
Sometimes you can do everything "right" and still have it go sideways.

but..................

think about it.....................

if it was simple or easy, most of us would probably get bored with it. 

[Jen]

Like I've said before, it's my alzheimer's prevention. I plan on being sharp as a stinger when I'm 90 and not a pain in the arse for my kids. One day I'll just drop dead in front of my hives sportin' a silly honey grin 

[Noronajo]

With that bee up your nose!

[Jen]

LOL !!! I wonder how many more stings in my nose it's gonna take to kill me considering I have 40 more years to hit 90 Good Grief!

 

[Beeboy]

I really know that there's only so much you can do but I just keep thinking wouldn't it be great if just one time I could get all those beautiful busy bees to stay put and pile honey into super after super? And I know that big black queen wasn't a virgin with that badunkadunk butt on her so how come she was piping? Does it ever seem to you there is still a lot of the unknown in beekeeping?

I think there are allot of unknowns. I think the bees let us learn just enough to keep us entertained. They are adaptable that allot of different management methods work, & that makes us feel smart & important to the bees.

[Jen]

Nicely put Beeboy ~ and I believe in the powers of the universe, in that the bees know they need us too.

[Bakersdozen]

Yep, 2011, my "virgin" year and I still don't know nothing!  Up to 11 hives from 7 now and surely some of my 5 gallon buckets will have honey in them this year.

Be patient, Grasshopper.
It will happen. 

I started keeping bees in 2009.  This spring I have learned more than all the other years combined. 

[LazyBkpr]

My strategy is to thin them a bit in the early spring and again early summer.  I know thats hard for folks that do not want to grow their apiary or sell nuc's...   and for most.. thinking of beheading frames of brood is akin to being a traitor to the entire purpose of keeping bees.   You will eventually find a combination that works in your situation "most" of the time.

   No swarms so far this year at all, but I split pretty hard on all but a few hives. I wont have as good luck when I start backing off to keep the production hives strong.

[Beeboy]

I will always be trying to figure out how to prevent swarming - I hate losing my bees so it's always on my mind in the spring. I had two hives at my bee yard 14 miles north of my house that I knew were primed to swarm so I did early splits, put empty frames in crowded brood deeps , saw brood was hatching and being filled with nectar and queen cells started. I pulled the old queen before the queen cells were capped, made a split, and the hive swarmed anyway. The second hive was going the same direction, 2 weeks ago empty queen cells but pulling the old queen didn't work, so I didn't. Last week, 25-30 swarm cells and bazillions of bees- couldn't figure out what to do so did nothing and it rained - and rained some more! Went yesterday and a big black queen was piping her heart out and prancing back and forth on the frames full of almost hatched queens. Don't only virgins pipe? Still didn't know what to do. Went home, slept on it, went back shortly after 7:00- storm is blowing in- not my smartest move. Ten minutes I have the hive lid on the ground and 3 honey supers stacked with the top deep full of bees on top of it. The bottom deep is still on the hive stand and I can hear a queen piping from it as I begin going thru the top deep. I find 5-6 hatched queens, definitely virgins, small, red and piping back and forth. I don't find the black queen but I make a split because the thunder and lightening are crashing and there's too many bees( should have tried 3 deeps, maybe). I know, too long a post but help! What am I overlooking? Yesterday, I even thought of taking off the three almost full supers to keep them fro taking it with them.

noro how rain have you received this week. We got a little but not much, probably a quarter inch overall. I know they are calling for a lot more over the weekend.

[Noronajo]

Sorry, Beeboy, got sidetracked. Pretty sure by now you got more rain- we sure have. 5-6 inches altogether, not enough to catch up but nice. BTW, hive did swarm and when I checked several days ago there was still a piping queen and unmatched queen cells so I'm just sitting back observing 'cause whatever I do is apt to be the wrong thing.