Maybe God doesn't want me to have bees?

[DMLinton]

I ordered a couple of nucs last Fall from a local supplier.  To hedge my bet, I also ordered some nucs from another local supplier, which was good because the first guy went out of business and never told anyone.  I found out accidentally.  Anyhow, contacted second guy second week of May to get an update on delivery dates as I knew everything was late and mid-May was not going to work.  He said third or fourth week of May.  Never heard anything more.  Gave it another week as, from talking to other folks around here, that was still reasonable.  Last week decided maybe I better just touch bases.  The guy has not responded to several enquiries even though up to the second week of May he typically responded within hours... or less.

In my last email, I re-iterated my point of view that, as an old farm boy, I am perfectly well aware that, in agriculture, two things happen - either you have more product than you can get rid off or you cannot quite fill the demand.  If the bees could not be supplied, just advise me of same and I can move on to other options. 

Yes, I am going to plan C which is to source bee from yet other sources.  Problem is that I have a deal with a supplier to purchase $1500 worth of bees.  Maybe they will eventually turn up, maybe not.

If God really does not want me to have bees, maybe I shouldn't push it.  On the other hand, maybe He is testing me .... again.

[brooksbeefarm]

DLMinton, how close are you to Perry? From what i've read from him all you need to do is put swarm traps near his bee yards. Free bees. Jack 

[DMLinton]

I am about sixteen hours each way.  Part of the frustration here is that, in my "bee area" there are not even swarms to capture or cutouts to take advantage of.  Been putting syrup out for a month and have yet to see one honey bee.  I am starting to think about buying double deep colonies ready for honey supers instead of nucs.  The season only lasts so long.

Perry, is that true?   How many swarms might I catch in, say, a weekend? 

[riverbee]

dennis,
i do not understand, (and never will)  the total lack of communication when it comes to ordering package bees and nucs. some are good about it, but it seems most are not.  and some take your money and you never see your money or your bees....or you receive a substandard 'product' and are scrambling to 'fix' what was sent you.

"in agriculture, two things happen - either you have more product than you can get rid of or you cannot quite fill the demand.  If the bees could not be supplied, just advise me of same and I can move on to other options."

this is good old fashioned honesty and good business practice (communication) which is, in my opinion, totally missing or not the norm anymore.  not certain why.  some folks don't have a moral compass.  they wouldn't like it if it was done to them.

it's not about you being tested dennis, it's about those who don't seem to have their marbles all in order.  and marbles is not the word i am describing....  

keep us posted and hang in there......sorry to hear of the troubles you are having acquiring bees.

[apisbees]

ONTARIO BEE JOURNAL
MAY / JUNE 2014

PRESIDENT’S
REPORT
April finally brought some warmer weather,
and beekeepers have had a chance to check
some hives. Early reports have been quite variable.
Responses to our short and quick survey shows that nearly a third of
beekeepers experienced less than 25% losses, but nearly forty percent
have lost more than half their hives. Lack of winter stores is the number
one reason; with suspicion that pesticides have weakened their hives is
second. Surprisingly, an overload of varroa was indicated by only 4%
of beekeepers. We’re still getting responses, so we’ll let you know how
the survey turns out.

The first paragraph of the presidents report sums up the reason for not getting bees in a timely fashion.
Poor spring weather so bees are slow to build up. Also lengthens the winter and causes a food shortage crises and hive starvation.
Beekeepers I imagine are tying to replace their winter losses as well as producing nucs for sale. They may still come but they could be quite late.

[Perry]

Here in NS we had a very slow start with a long and protracted cool spring. Then all heck broke loose and we had blueberries starting to bloom at almost the same time as apples (not good). Guys were pulling colonies for blueberries with apple still in bloom. It was all compressed into such a short period of time. I was doing inspections and had to put my own yards on the back burner to some degree, causing the situation that my good buddy Jack is referring to. 
I actually was so short of gear on one occassion I sold one of the swarms.

I basically have 2 types of customers, the first batch that wanted early nucs no matter what, and the second that was prepared to wait for the local queens to become available. It is this second group that is now (understandably) getting impatient. Here we are in mid-June and I was just able to purchase local queens last Wednesday. Made up nucs Thursday, installed queens Friday, and am now waiting to see if they are reased and "proven". I called the same fellow I bought these queens from to see if I could get more and he won't have any additional availble until the end of the month. I have several mating nucs that are on the go with queens that should be ready any day, but it all takes time.

My phone or email is constantly going with folks looking to buy, Some are from folks that are looking to hedge their bets as their original suppliers are behind schedule, with many still having colonies in Blueberies and have yet to bring them home. They then have to pull nucs, and I am guessing they will sell with the original queens unless they have a source for those.

I am not defending poor communication by any means (which is what it sounds like Dennis is seeing). My problem is learning something I find very difficult, and that is how to be able to say NO and not feel badly about it). 

[DMLinton]

Apisbees and Perry, with all due respect, you both completely missed the point.  I do not need a lesson in this year's bee schedules.  I am very much aware that everything is late, very late.  My issue is in the fact that suppliers cannot seem to communicate.  One closes up business without advising customers.  One gives a revised delivery date estimate upon my enquiring, is now over two weeks past the lastest of those dates and will not respond to my enquiries.  Frankly, I don't care if business people are run off their feet because it means they have have lots of demand for their product and/or that they are poor managers. 

I don't even care a great deal if my order is delivered later yet.  What I do care about is knowing that they are coming sometime.  Last year there were a good number of newbs here in Ontario that placed their orders in timely fashion, waited patiently for notification that the bees were ready for pickup.  The notification never came.  When they finally enquired, they were told that the bees were all gone.

A beekeeper about an hour and half from me, and will probably end up with the bulk of my business, does a very good job of keeping everyone informed - a simple one liner on the main page of her web site, "Due to 2014 Spring weather conditions, queens, nucs and packages will not become available for delivery until after June 10".  There, done, simple, customers have all been advised.  The ones patiently waiting know that everything is still in order.  Calls from the impatient ones can be ignored.

One thing that is becoming painfully obvious to me is that, in general, beekeepers are the most accomplished excuse makers I have ever encountered AND can offer an amazing stream of half answers and miseading answers.  riverbee got the point of my OP so I am now that I am at least semi-literate.  Yes, brooksbeefarm post a sort of none response by it was meant to be lighthearted and it was taken in that manner.

While I am on this rant, Perry, you may recall that I made some enquiries last Fall about buying nucs from you and, yes, I was prepared to do the two day round trip drive, on a day or so notice, to your place to pick them up.  Can you remember how you responded?  If not, look back in the archives here.  Bottom line is that I got blown off.

With the exception of riverbee and iddee, most of the time, and a few others that I will apologize for not remembering handles, this forum is a coffee room for experienced beekeepers to discuss their day.  God help a newb trying to learn something if they do more than sit in the background and listen.

For those having trouble getting your head around what I am saying, try to imagine yourselves back at the newbie stage and go back and read Beeboy's recent "How much" thread or the one Jen posted several weeks back enquiring about walkaway splits.

I have been approached more than once by the management of this forum to find out why I seem to be either very quiet or missing altogether.  Off topic responses that may or may not treat the OP as an idiot like those that Apisbees and perry have posted here are certainly at the root of it.

[blueblood]

I say it all the time, communication, communication and communication.  It is nearly impossible to please everybody all the time and a good leader/business person recognizes this and accepts it.  It's flat out rude to rope someone along.  Myself and most folks in general, while being a little miffed by bad news, will still have respect for the business in that communication was made.  And thus, we can move on to the next plan.  It's just business, and that is it.  The business leader hopefully learns from his/her mistakes or miscalculations and moves forward.  I would return to a business like that.  S___ happens! 

Sorry DM.....that has to be frustrating since I have learned your season up there is limited.  Hey, by the way, we have plenty of room down here in Indiana! 

[DMLinton]

Thanks for that, blueblood.  As I have said here on a few occasions and certainly expressed to my unresponsive bee supplier, this old farm boy is well aware of the up and downs in animal husbandry.  Hence, my issue is not that bee deliveries are late this year.  My issue is that it is now almost three weeks past the latest date that the supplier had said the bees would become available and the supplier, from my vantage point, is either ignoring me or has disappeared.  I know I am a very small fish in a very large pond but I do not wish to end up beeless.

I have cancelled my order as of a few minutes ago and am pursuing alternatives.  I willl end up with bees.

[DMLinton]

On exploring alternatives, I am now scheduled to pick up two single deep colonies at  8:00 pm July 1 from another supplier. 

[DMLinton]

Interesting development - got response from unresponsive supplier with 45 minutes of sending notification of order cancellation.  He was professional in his response, although he made no mention of whether or not my order would have actually turned up, and pointed me to another supplier .... the one I had just ordered two single deeps from.

I hate it when I have to take a hard-arsed position but, a little unfortunately in this world, patience and understanding are not always virtues..

[blueblood]

Excellent! Too bad the border would present problems for importing some bees.  You are sooooo close to Ohio, Michigan or even us here in Indiana.  Real close to New York but I am not certain how many dealers in the north part of the state there.

I can only imagine how pricey those single deeps will be.  So, because of the short season, will these be more of an investment for 2015?

[DMLinton]

Hey, blue.  Price is an interesting thing.  The best price for nucs around here is $150 with mostin the $160-$175 range especially for small numbers.  The single deep colonies, which additionally includes bottom board, deep with full complement of frames, innner cover and out cover will be $255 each.  In a sense, I get two nucs plus woodware for significnantly less than the price of two nucs.  More interesting yet is that the single deep colonies will put me, on July 1, very close to where I would have been with a nuc delivered mid-May.

On location, even though I am north of Lake Ontario, it is actually easier for me to access many resources in the USA than it is to access them here in Ontario from a driving point of view.  I need to get my documents in order to be able to cross the border. It was nice back in the day when the border was open.  Strangely, the last time I visited the USA, I had more trouble getting back into Canada than I did entering the USA.  The US border guard found it a little odd that a guy claiming to be an engineer on his way to meeting in Pennsylvania was driving a 3/4 diesel with a fifth wheel hitch on the back, which I think was fair.  The Canajun ones just held me up for an hour an a half, Dumped out every container they could find in the cab and even dumped everything in my wallet on the interrogation room table.  I have no idea what they were looking for but I did get to replace some broken computer equipment.

[DMLinton]

Another interesting development - just got another interesting message from the unresponsive supplier indicating, vaguely, that my nuc order was indeed NOT going to show up.  He did offer an attractively priced alternative but why didn't he do that when he became aware that he was not going to be able to fill my order.  Or did I just get forgotten and now we are in damage control?  No matter, it is irrelevant now.

[apisbees]

Sorry Dennis I was not trying to avoid the bad communication by the suppliers in Ontario but I can not speak for them neither. I am also not trying to make excesses for them or condoning their lack of communication. I do understand beekeeping and how bad spring weather effect colony survival, colony build up. The raising of queens the stocking of queen mating nucs and the making of nucs. In our area in BC most of the beekeepers suffered higher loses than normal so demand was higher while the hives available for pollination and nucs production were low because of the winter loses. 
I am glad that you found a supplier and that for the few dollars more you will be getting a strong enough colony for the time of year. As you have stated the single will be at the stage the nuc would have been if it had been delivered on time.
A package installed the first part of April, when we had access to bees from California, Texas and a few other states was what worked for establishing an successful colony. When the boarder was closed, it was not possible to raise queens and have robust populations to be able to shake so nucs where the solution to starting colonies. A 4 frame nuc delivered the first of May was the equivalence to a package installed 3 weeks earlier. Because the 1st of May delivery was not always obtainable 5 frame were sold as the standard and the delivery date set back to mid May.
The guy you are buying your bees from now understands the dynamics of the hive population. And although they are costing you more you will be getting colonies that are appropriate for the time of year that you will be receiving them.
In another thread I questioned the colony strength but asked about when and how's of the colony and found out it was only hived 3 weeks before. This answered the question as the state of development but bees supplied from other part of the USA have developed into a full super with the second being added already. As a experienced beekeeper and having assessed many new beekeepers I do not like to see new beekeepers getting taken advantage of and not getting what they have paid for. This refers to strength and also the date it should happen at.
Thanks for reading Keith

[Perry]

Well DMLinton, if you were looking for a response, here's mine:

I have come to the conclusion that some folks are not happy unless they are unhappy.
This forum has been good to you, and bent over backwards on more than one occasion for you. You regularily depart in a huff, claiming you will never darken the doorstep here again, only to show up with a seemingly changed attitude. It appears as though it is only a matter of time and that attitude reverts back to it's unpleasant self. I personally am tired of making accomodation for it. Your attacks on the forum, your snide and belligerent comments directed at members on the forum, all of it so negative, and to what purpose? Make people feel bad?
Life is too short sir!

I am posting this without consultation with other Admin and Mods. and if it gets me in hot water, so be it. I am tired of your nonsense.
 

[LazyBkpr]

I don't know the story and am not going to respond to any part of it but this one..

With the exception of riverbee and iddee, most of the time, and a few others that I will apologize for not remembering handles, this forum is a coffee room for experienced beekeepers to discuss their day.  God help a newb trying to learn something if they do more than sit in the background and listen.

   I have yet to see a new beekeeper ask a question where someone was not trying to help them. I read the posts, if they are well covered and I have nothing to add I don't, but that does not mean I am not reading or that I will not respond if no one else does, or if they do not point out something I think is relevant to their issue.
   The entire point of being here is to offer help, the secondary point is that I enjoy it here, I enjoy the people here, the banter and brotherhood.  I have always assumed you were part of it, Sorry to hear you feel otherwise.

[iddee]

The next post will be about communication from bee sellers. Otherwise. it will be deleted and the topic locked.
Enough, even too much, as been said off topic.

EDIT: It wasn't.