Little temporary bad beekeeper me

[tbonekel]

It had been a few weeks since I did a good inspection. They were bringing in lots of honey and filling the supers. I figured everything was fine. The hive is two deeps and two mediums tall. About 1 week ago, I lifted the top and noticed that they had all but stopped bringing in any sweet stuff. I figured that the flow was over.  I had not really wanted to do a deep inspection because I knew how heavy that top deep was going to be. In the past, I would go in and check the top deep and once I found a good brood pattern and eggs, I was happy. Yesterday was different. I went into the top deep and found very little brood. Apparently, it's not so much of a finished flow, it's just that the bees had decided to backfill the empty deep cells rather than go up to the mediums. So I had to lift the top deep off. Now, I'm used to heaving a 50 pound bag of dog food over my shoulder with not much trouble at all. But lifting a deep full of honey is completely different. WOW!! Anyway, at the time, it was hot and I had shorts on with a short sleeve shirt and just a veil on and the were getting a little testy so I didn't do a really good check in that bottom deep. That was a mistake I now know.

All that to say and ask this: If this hive is queenless and I don't see any signs of making a queen, I will have to purchase a queen or give them something to make one. The question is if they are making a new queen or if I give them one, she will need someplace to lay and the top deep is full of honey. I can either remove that entire deep and replace with a medium (to slowly convert this hive to all mediums) or remove a few of the deep frames and replace with empty ones. I just realized I haven't asked a question yet. Sorry. Any suggestions for this situation? As I write this, I'm kind of answering myself and I feel I know what some of you would say, but I really care about ya'll's opinions. 

[Jen]

Hiya tbone- I hear ya on the weight of those deeps, I just can't do it, and hubby is often not available to do the lifting for me. One deep is 80 plus pounds of dead weight.

My first thought while reading was to remove the deep and put on a medium, and then another medium later. A perfect opportunity for you right now ~ I vote Yes on moving the deep and placing a medium 

[Woody Roberts]

It's different here than normal but normally around this time of year they stop putting brood in the top box and start backfilling it with honey.
By late summer I usually have brood on the middle 6 frames of the bottom box.

You may not have a problem.

[tbonekel]

Interesting that you say that. I thought maybe the queen might be throttling back but since this is my first full year, I wasn't sure when that was supposed to happen.

[blueblood]

I would check again for the queen if you are concerned enough to think she is not in there.  Are you trying to transition all your hives to medium boxes?  If not, I would extract a handful of them and replace.  Or pull and freeze, and replace with empty drawn or foundation.

[LazyBkpr]

   The center hive actually has two more mediums on it now..   the top deep is PACKED with honey, I am quite sure it weighs right around 300 lbs..   Ask Ted, he helped me lift it...
   It WILL get pulled and extracted, then it will be cut down to a medium and repainted. In the spring, the bottom deep will get pulled and replaced with a medium.
  I have no arguments with using deeps if anyone "else" wishes to do so, but I do firmly believe that friends don't let friends lift deeps.

[Jen]

300 pounds? Holy Shmoly Guacamole! 

[riverbee]

"All that to say and ask this: If this hive is queenless and I don't see any signs of making a queen, I will have to purchase a queen or give them something to make one. The question is if they are making a new queen or if I give them one, she will need someplace to lay and the top deep is full of honey. I can either remove that entire deep and replace with a medium (to slowly convert this hive to all mediums) or remove a few of the deep frames and replace with empty ones. I just realized I haven't asked a question yet. Sorry. Any suggestions for this situation? As I write this, I'm kind of answering myself and I feel I know what some of you would say, but I really care about ya'll's opinions. "

1. tbone why would you think the hive is queenless?

2. what's in the top 2 mediums?

3. refer to woody's post.....or extract the deep frames,  (if it's capped), or save to feed back, replace with empty drawn if the queen needs space to lay.

4. do you want to go to all medium boxes?

 

[tbonekel]

Hey Riv, I would say the hive is queenless because that's probably the first reaction that a new beekeeper would lean toward when seeing far less brood than in a previous inspection. Other than that, I have no reason. I guess from all my reading, it doesn't make sense that there would be no brood in the top box that has been used as a brood chamber so well until now.

The very top medium has maybe a total of 4 full frames of capped and uncapped honey. The medium below that is fully capped honey and ready for me to take.

My answer to number four about all mediums is I don't know. I'm still struggling with that one. I would kind of like to go all mediums with one hive to see how they do. After lifting that top deep full of honey, it made me not want to do that very often and I feel I should do a good inspection at least every couple of weeks.

The problem with extracting is that I don't have an extractor. Anything I take from them will be crush and strain so I cant give them back any empty comb. They will have to rebuild. I know they can do it pretty quick, I have seen them, but I wish I didn't have to make them start from scratch every time.

[tbonekel]

   It WILL get pulled and extracted, then it will be cut down to a medium and repainted. In the spring, the bottom deep will get pulled and replaced with a medium.

When you cut down a deep, do you try to use what's left over as a shim?

[riverbee]

"Hey Riv, I would say the hive is queenless because that's probably the first reaction that a new beekeeper would lean toward when seeing far less brood than in a previous inspection. Other than that, I have no reason. I guess from all my reading, it doesn't make sense that there would be no brood in the top box that has been used as a brood chamber so well until now. "

tbone, is this a first year colony started in one deep, or was this colony overwintered?

reverse the medium boxes, put the mostly empty one on the bottom, and the full on the top, or just remove it.

is there a flow on or is one trailing off?

do you have a carni queen?

[tbonekel]

This is a hive from a swarm last June so they overwintered in a single deep. I added the additional deep in March. I have no idea what kind of queen or how old she is. Its hard for me to tell if the flow is still on or not. I have noticed that the bees are not shooting out with quite the zeal as they were a few weeks ago. In fact, they have been looking a little bored. One thing that is interesting about this hive though is that in addition to bearding, they are spreading themselves out in the face of the bottom deep, Luke washboarding but they aren't moving back and fourth.

[Jen]

I've been observing this as well tbone. I see the bees shoot out and shoot in the hive, tumbling over each other if they have to, to get into the hive. And, around 4pm when the sun hits behind them I can see twice as many bees in the air, pretty golden bullets shooting everywhere. Then, almost as soon as it started it ends, and like you say they are bored for a week or two.

[tbonekel]

Okay, checked the hive more thoroughly today. Didn't see any eggs, but saw very young brood, so I may be okay. There is plenty of room in the bottom deep to lay, so I'm not sure what's going on with her. She may just be taking a break. I left the top deep on that's full of honey and removed one of the mediums to rob. I didn't spend a lot of time looking for the queen. They were not very nice and after getting stung on the hands about 4 times, I put on the gloves. Put everything back together to let them settle down. I think everything is okay at this point. Thanks for all the good advice. This is a great support group!

[Slowmodem]

They were not very nice and after getting stung on the hands about 4 times, I put on the gloves. Put everything back together to let them settle down.

I never hesitate to just walk away (sometimes I walk smartly away).    Discretion is the better part of valor, or so I'm told.   

[riverbee]

tbone,
a good indication of flow/no flow; if there is nothing happening in the medium super you left on. if this is the case i would not be quick to extract any frames from the 2nd deep that contains honey.  these would be their frames of food to sustain themselves. it may be that your queen has slowed laying or stopped laying until a flow resumes.  also, no nectar/pollen coming in = unemployed bees which will contribute to them being cranky.

as far as this being an overwintered single deep, and adding the 2nd deep on in march; did you place the 2nd deep directly on top?  if so, just a suggestion for the next time, rather than placing an empty deep on top of the existing brood deep, place the empty deep on the bottom. the broodnest will expand and grow down, and then back up, with them placing the honey stores above the brood nest.