Difference between "combine" and just adding bees

[tbonekel]

I understand the reasons to combine two hives into one, but is there a line between a newspaper combine and just adding some bees? If you have a pretty strong hive and it becomes queenless you can add a frame of eggs and let them make a new queen, but with that frame, you will most likely donate some nurse bees as well. So what happens if you have a weak, queenless hive that you need to combine and you just place the box on top of the strong hive? Is there a kind of "magic" number that you need to shoot for to newspaper combine? I hope that's not too confusing.

[pistolpete]

I think that it's a matter of making it less stressful on the bees more than anything.    I get the impression that commercial beeks don't really give it a second thought and equalise hives as needed.   The backyard hobbyist wants to be considerate to the bees and the newspaper combine eases the adjustment. 

My opinion is that with lots of smoke and a light mist of sugar syrup you can combine directly .    By the time the smoke clears and everyone is licked clean they're best friends.

I should add that I have pretty docile bees and others may be much more defensive of their turf.

[Woody Roberts]

The only time I use newspaper is when combining a weak queen right hive with a strong queen less one.

[LazyBkpr]

    Yes, giving the queen some protection/time as the new and old bees begin to merge is the main reason for newspaper.
  Your also combining complete hives rather than just adding a frame. The bees on a frame are usually not many in comparison, their home suddenly changes, they have nothing but the frame they are on to defend..   Putting one hive on top of another is asking them to accept a plethora of strangers into what they have considered home, so both sides could be quite defensive..
   Your also occupying them. They are busy working and chewing up the paper, they have a purpose/job to do.   Kind of like spraying with syrup..   they are not thinking about fighting or defending while they clean the syrup off or in this case remove the paper. My mentor was a beek who thought making sure his bees were employed so they always had purpose was an important part of maintaining a hive. Scientific or not, it served him well, so I try to keep my bees occupied as well. Weather its to prevent swarming, or when combining hives..   For what its worth..

[Bakersdozen]

    Yes, giving the queen some protection/time as the new and old bees begin to merge is the main reason for newspaper.
    Your also occupying them. They are busy working and chewing up the paper, they have a purpose/job to do.   Kind of like spraying with syrup..   they are not thinking about fighting or defending while they clean the syrup off or in this case remove the paper. My mentor was a beek who thought making sure his bees were employed so they always had purpose was an important part of maintaining a hive. Scientific or not, it served him well, so I try to keep my bees occupied as well. Weather its to prevent swarming, or when combining hives..   For what its worth..

I agree with your theory on protecting the queen.  The newspaper give her pheromones a chance to mingle.
I also like your philosophy about keeping them busy.  It's always so much nicer to work the hive when a nectar flow is on as apposed to a dearth.

[blueblood]

I have very similar thinking to Pete on this.  Scott, I have seen how fast the queen can bite the dust in a group of strange bees, just recently.  So, I concur with newspaper in helping to reduce that possible danger.

[riverbee]

"So what happens if you have a weak, queenless hive that you need to combine and you just place the box on top of the strong hive? Is there a kind of "magic" number that you need to shoot for to newspaper combine? "

tbone, there is no 'magic' number.  i would suggest you use the newspaper method to combine any queenless colony with a queen right colony.

there is a great difference between 'equalization' of colonies and 'combining' colonies. equalization of colonies consists of going through your beeyard, and determining which hives need a 'boost', and which hives are the strongest to give the weaker hives the boost; frames of brood and nurse bees, and/or pollen and honey, and equalizing all....similiar in strength and stores.  nurse bees have no alliance, so typically one is safe to transfer these bees and the brood they are caring for without fear of the loss of your queen or bees fighting.  not so with combining a hive of bees with another.

in a combine, it is safer to use the newspaper method to  ensure that your queen is not injured/killed and/or that you don't have a boat load of bees fighting and killed, and there is no amount of smoke or syrup sprayed on them that will prevent this.  combining bees is stressful on the bees; to the stronger hive you are combining them with, and the weaker  queenless hive you are giving a 'new home'.  the newspaper method gives them the time needed.

considerate of the bees?  yes, maybe, a little more to it than that. if you are not 'considerate' of your bees,  perhaps one shouldn't be keeping bees.
that's my humble opinion. 

 

[apisbees]

You also have to keep in mind the environment plays a big roll in how the bees will react to any given event, manipulation, that takes place or happens in the hive. what works and you can get away with one day may not meet with the same results the next time. Hive population dynamics ratio of nurse bees to foragers. Whether there are flows present, and good flying weather to forage, can have a huge effect on how the bees will react.
It is not that placing a combine of top of directly releasing a queen will not work because a lot of times it does and will. But by taking the precaution and using newspaper to combine or candy so the queen is released slower just increases the chances of success. By slowing what can be a natural bee behavior, we can increase our chance of success.

[riverbee]

"You also have to keep in mind the environment plays a big roll in how the bees will react to any given event, manipulation, that takes place or happens in the hive. what works and you can get away with one day may not meet with the same results the next time. Hive population dynamics ratio of nurse bees to foragers. Whether there are flows present, and good flying weather to forage, can have a huge effect on how the bees will react."

very true apis.