Author Topic: I Think My Queen Flew Away (Read 11068 times)

Jen · « **on:** June 28, 2014, 09:55:38 pm »

I did a shuffle on one of my hives today, I put the deep on the bottom of the stack followed by two meds. When I cracked loose the brood box from the bottom board, I lifted the brood box up and over and spotted a queen on the floor of the bottom board. She lifted up and slowly flew an inch away from my eyes. The Nerve! I swear to gawd!

Anyway, this queen's abdomen was definatively half black and half red. The bees in this hive are europeons from the swarms and still has a swarmy queen in it... well, maybe not... How could this queen have been this color?

Maybe it was a strange bug.... crazy

Riverrat · « **Reply #1 on:** June 28, 2014, 10:09:52 pm »

When a queen fly's off the best thing you can do is stand at the hive for awhile she has a good chance of coming back. She would have been orientated to you standing there.

Jen · « **Reply #2 on:** June 28, 2014, 10:36:03 pm »

Nice tip there River

I think I was right there for about 20 minutes while doing the shuffle.

If the hive looses her and makes another queen it will be another month before egg laying again. Right during the flow's DANG!

I have one place here in upper cali where I can get another queen, but they only mail overnight because it's too hot for a longer journey, $75.

I was looking for eggs as well, didn't spot any. So I should go back in in 4 days or two weeks to see if there is any eggs?

Riverrat · « **Reply #3 on:** June 28, 2014, 10:53:16 pm »

You got to look at both sides of the coin when considering the price of a queen. Look at the price of a package or a nuc. The $75.00 isn't so bad considering what your goal is of having bees for honey production.

riverbee · « **Reply #4 on:** June 28, 2014, 10:55:14 pm »

jen......."the nerve"............

are you sure it was the queen?.......i mean i know you have had a lot of experience on looking at queens this year......

like riverrat said, good chance she will be back in the hive, if in fact it was your queen. if she wound up on the outside of the hive nearby, the bees would most likely cluster around her, so check for that, chances are she would make it back. the last time a queen took off for me, was last summer? when the river boy was going through the hive and the queen took flight off a frame and he thought landed underneath the pallet the hive sits on. i sent him back to look for her to no avail.....and we both looked for a cluster of bees that night. long story short, she found her way back in the hive and all was good. i have had them fly off a frame and land near the hive and scramble to nab them......little buggers!

curious though, while doing the shuffle, no eggs seen? did she have room to lay? any larvae? describe what was in the medium brood box jen?

barry42001 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 28, 2014, 11:14:00 pm »

How does a laying queen fly off, all my queens are so distended with eggs would suspect the best they could accomplish is embarrassing themselves for the effort lol...just saying. Wait you mentioned no eggs or larva? Hmmm then, 1) she would be slim enough for flight, 2) she would be difficult to find in a populous colony, aside from the workers behavior towards. Isn't this still the old swarmy, somewhat retarded stock....take a frame of eggs from the new stock, and even if you find this queen ...summarily execute her!

Jen · « **Reply #6 on:** June 28, 2014, 11:29:13 pm »

Brood medium. Larvae in several stages, but no eggs or pupae, if there were eggs there were not very many. Yes she had room to lay. All frames were pretty much just like these frames.

Zweefer · « **Reply #7 on:** June 28, 2014, 11:33:12 pm »

Yes, I'll take things that suck for $1,000 please Alex...

Sending some good mojo your way Jen... yours seemed to work for me...

Jen · « **Reply #8 on:** June 28, 2014, 11:36:10 pm »

Me- "Anyway, this queen's abdomen was definatively half black and half red. The bees in this hive are europeons from the swarms and still has a swarmy queen in it... well, maybe not... How could this queen have been this color?

She wasnt' a huge queen, medium I would say, maybe this is a new queen, old queen superceded?

I'm still curious why her abdomen was a definate black and red color when this is original bee stock. Like red down to the middle and black down to her stinger ~ scratching head on this one

Jen · « **Reply #9 on:** June 28, 2014, 11:38:17 pm »

zweef- "Yes, I'll take things that suck for $1,000 please Alex..."

LOL I know! Seriously!

barry42001 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 29, 2014, 01:10:19 am »

Jen, " Embrace the suck " whats left lol

pistolpete · « **Reply #11 on:** June 29, 2014, 01:32:58 am »

Jen: "Brood medium. Larvae in several stages, but no eggs or pupae, if there were eggs there were not very many. Yes she had room to lay. All frames were pretty much just like these frames."

Your terminology is off slightly: you have lots of pupae, sealed brood contains the pupal stage.
There is no room to lay on the frames you pictured. every cell is full of honey, pollen, or brood.
I see some 2 and 3 day old larvae in there, so it's highly unlikely that there are no eggs.

check back in 4 days. If there are no eggs to be found anywhere (and some queen cells), then you are indeed missing your queen. At that point you have to decide if you want to destroy all queen cells and give them eggs from a "good" queen to raise a new one from, or order a new queen.

On the bright side, if the queen flew off, there will be no impact on honey gathering until August. It will be more than 3 weeks before all the larvae hatch out and another 3 weeks before those bees become foragers. With no brood to feed, they will actually bring in a larger crop.

Jen · « **Reply #12 on:** June 29, 2014, 02:02:37 am »

Pete- "Your terminology is off slightly: you have lots of pupae, sealed brood contains the pupal stage.

More than likley Pete, I haven't reached that chapter in my bee education ~

Pete- "At that point you have to decide if you want to destroy all queen cells and give them eggs from a "good" queen to raise a new one from, or order a new queen.

I think she was a good queen, although she did come from the swarmy batch this queen was going great guns until I saw the med honey super was full. I was in there about 2 weeks ago, so she hadn't been cramped for very long.
If I do add a frame of eggs it will definately be from one of my introduced non-swarmy queens. But I know I'll be loosing a month of egg laying.
Or, I can bust loose $75 for a new queen, hope she makes it to my house safely, and the bees except her, but I'll be only loosing maybe 1 weeks worth of laying.

Pete- "On the bright side, if the queen flew off, there will be no impact on honey gathering until August. It will be more than 3 weeks before all the larvae hatch out and another 3 weeks before those bees become foragers. With no brood to feed, they will actually bring in a larger crop.

But wouldn't that lessen the crop for fall and winter survial?

barry42001 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 29, 2014, 02:35:56 am »

Jen,
During the course of the summer there's a natural gap in brood rearing, because there's about a month and a half months when little if anything is coming in. The Queen during that period of lack of resources will slow down her brood rearing, with a minor pick up as the fall flow begins. that turns out to be a good thing because you want to have a young winter cluster.

tecumseh · « **Reply #14 on:** June 29, 2014, 03:51:25 am »

on most occasion with a queen well established in a hive they will return < on some occasion the day after it ain't such a bad idea to check the exterior of the hive since sometimes a queen can find the box but seems to have a difficult time finding the front door.

so when you say red do you mean red red or bronze?

Garden Hive · « **Reply #15 on:** June 29, 2014, 07:33:08 am »

I'm with Pistol on this observation......
I saw the previous thread about shuffling the boxes. I read that the top(deep) was begining stages of drawn but no eggs.
Then read that the middle(med) is full of honey mostly capped, the rest nectar.....guessing no brood.
Then didn't get into bottom(med), too cranky!

I read this as not a strong hive. Yes heavily populated and able to guard but still very small and young. Only brood chamber being a single medium. Honey bound above the brood chamber. JMO
So the swap was very needed. Good move. But now the observation of seeing the (thin queen) fly and no eggs.

After seeing photo's, yes they help alot. But only 3. Jen.."all frames were pretty much just like these"
I'll go a little further and suggest looking for swarm cells in bottom(you said didn't get in there, cranky).
She did not have any laying room at all. Possibly shut down and thined for the flight.
Again...... JMO from what is presented

Jen · « **Reply #16 on:** June 29, 2014, 12:47:43 pm »

Hi Tech- "so when you say red do you mean red red or bronze?"

I got a good glimpse of her but not a long glimpse. It sure appeared red to me, 'striking'. I can't be totally sure which side the red was on, either the upper abdomen or the lower. Red and Black. Up to date all of my queens are a caramel color.

Jen · « **Reply #17 on:** June 29, 2014, 01:12:36 pm »

Good call Garden "I read this as not a strong hive. Yes heavily populated and able to guard but still very small and young. Only brood chamber being a single medium. Honey bound above the brood chamber. JMO

Yes! this was the last swarm we caught this last spring, #8 out of 10 swarms. We were completely out of wooden ware except the last medium, and no extra brood or frames of bees to add as an achore to help them stay put. We call this the 'bare bones' hive. Well they stayed

Garden- "I'll go a little further and suggest looking for swarm cells in bottom(you said didn't get in there, cranky).

Let's see if I can remember the procedure of what to do if I find swarm cells. K, so! if I find swarm cells, I can remove them, they would be along the bottom of the frames. But the bees are already in swarm mode by the time swarm cells are built.

What I'm hoping is that the switcheroo putting the deep on the bottom and the med brood box in the middle will prevent any swarming. Gawd Forbid!

I'll check back in 4 days to see if there are any new eggs ~

barry42001 · « **Reply #18 on:** June 29, 2014, 01:33:14 pm »

Early active queen cells can be destroyed. But once older cells are present there will be a swarming effort immature cells again can be simply destroyed, and additional corrective action taken.

riverbee · « **Reply #19 on:** June 29, 2014, 11:45:19 pm »

some good thoughts and some good observations. i think jen, you did the right thing, shuffling the boxes, for many reasons. swarming? doubt it. i would give the bees and the queen 7 days after this shuffle, that's my HO. leave them alone. 4 days vs 7 days isn't going to matter in the big picture if your queen has to be replaced or didn't make it back. patience.

i would just like to add, if we want to help or educate another new beek on egg, larval, pupal stage, then perhaps send them a pm, or be a little more diplomatic about it, rather than, in my HO, point it out being a little rough around the edges. it serves no purpose to embarrass another beek who is learning, just as we all are.