Bringing One Of My Swarm Hives Home

[Jen]

Our friend has gotten two swarms from me, he has not conceded to modern care of beehives except for two OA treatments. One of the hives has dwindled down to almost nothing. I asked if I could have the hive back and maybe I can revive it with some frames from one of my healthy hives. He said 'Sure!'

Now I know there are still unanswered questions here. I'm going over to their place this evening and inspect this hive. I have a Big hunch that mites have eaten away the bees.

It needs one more OA treatment

I don't know if the queen is present, but friend said that there is some capped brood present.

What I want to know, for this evening, is if I can place this hive next to my 4 healthy hives when I bring it home? Should I put it on the other side of the yard for awhile? It's so weak that I don't know if robbing will ensue, pretty sure it will.

[apisbees]

If the bees from your other hives are in a robbing mode placing it any where in the yard will not make much different the bees will find it. We strict the entrance and check for the cause for it not building up. Bad queen or pest or disease. Look for sign that it did not superseded or swarmed and ended up queenless for a 30 day period. Nothing can take a hive down faster than to have it go queenless.

[Jen]

How did I know that you Apis would be one of my first responders

My bees are all content in their own hives, no robbing this season that I know of.

I'll be taking pics this evening, I've been wanting to get into this hive for weeks, I'm excited but have trepidation of what I might see. This friend and his wife have been our best friends for 32 years. I might have to kill him ~

[apisbees]

Tell him that if he doesn't like what you are telling him to join the forum and a few of us can tell him in a gentle way. If you know what I mean.

[Jen]

Good suggestion, but he's been in managment all his life so he only wants to tell others what to do, not hear what others say. Actually, I'm happy to get this hive back, I hope I can save them. I'll keep you posted 

[Jen]

Just got back from inspecting the hive I will be bringing home... or not    Should I bring this hive home? I won't keep these frames because they are plastic. Maybe keep the bees and combine?

This is last years swarm, was doing well last year but didn't pick up during spring, been dawdling along, my strong suspicion -- Mites that he wouldn't treat for.

Looks like wax moth to me, maybe more ick but I don't know for sure

There is about 1 pound of bees in this hive

All frames pulled

3 empty queen 'cups', no evidence of a queen cell or supercedure cell

No eggs anywhere, None

On pic 9898 it appears to be uncapped brood, doesn't look healthy to me

On pic 9900 don't know if this is brood or goop

[apisbees]

What it need first is a deep freeze. to kill the wax moths the damage is not to bad now but every day it will get worse. It also looks like parts of it could have been robed out. but not positive the frames could have been that way when the swarm was hived. If that is all the bees there is not much left there.

[Jen]

So what's the best approach here?

The hive body and frames belong to our friend, I don't want his deep nor the plastic frames, I would just as soon return these to him and keep the bees. There is about 1 pounds of bees, that's enough to start another hive except that I would have to buy a $75 queen here in my area.

Can I just knock these bees off of the frames into one of my less productive hives? would that potentially drop a wax moth larvae into my hive? and would the bees in my hive except these bees that quickly?

How would I safely remove these bees from their hive to another hive? It's a little late in the year to guarantee a laying queen in 30 days, that would be the end of July. 

I've done a combine successfully, but I cant combine with this infested deep.

It's late, I'm blurry, and I'm over thinking this. I'll look forward to any reply's in the morning  zzzzzzz


 

[Woody Roberts]

I wouldent combine so to speak. I would shake them out in front of another hive. Then freeze the frames.

[Gypsi]

I agree with Woody

[iddee]

I would not take those bees within 5 miles of my hives. I would shake them out in HIS yard and tell him to freeze the equipment and store it away.

[Jen]

Okay Iddee, just for learning... Why would you not take these bees? I'm not well up on wax moth. I do know that WM larvae can effectively hide, and eat away wood and burrow in.

[apisbees]

Lets face it this hive has been queenless for a long time,so these bees are old and near the end or their life. These bees have been stressed because of being queenless and when bees are stressed the viruses and disease tend to show. Adding those bees to your hives, is like kissing your husband when he has the flew.
We don't hear Iddee say to dump the bees and give up on them very often, but I agree.

[iddee]

I don't know what it is, but there is some kind of disease in that hive. That is not normal deterioration of brood and wax. I see no sign of wax moth.

[Jen]

Wow Iddee and Apis! This is a real eye opener for me and others. The age of these bees did come to mind. And the hive did have a faint decay or mold smell.

Now I'm thinking of telling my friend to button up that hive and let the bees go, this hive is right next to his other hive which is building very well, one deep. Now, I'm going to fuss over his good hive knowing that it may be diseased as well.

Is this what you two would do? close up the hive and let the bees go?

I think I'll also start another thread with these pics and maybe get some feed back on what thismess is in the hive. would like some feed back from Tec

[apisbees]

I agree with Iddee that this is not the greater or lesser wax moth that creates havoc with beeswax that most of you know. It is closer to what I deal with which is the codling moth which natural host species is apple and pair trees and their blooms. It is not the codling moth but the damage is close to what i see and find. due to the hive being week some other insect set up home and laid that is an indication that the hive has been week for some time.

[Jen]

Apis, would these bees be able to transmit anything to other hives? Wondering what to tell my friend. If these bees can infect he could close up the hive let the bees die. Or, if not infectious, can let them die out naturally.

And, should I get into his hive right next door and see if that hive is having the same problem?

[Riverrat]

I got to go with Iddee on this one.  Ask yourself this. Would I buy the equipment and bees if it was cheap and bring it to your bee yard?  If the answer no its best to leave them at there home.

[apisbees]

She has already brought them to her home so she is now talking about taking them back.
Jen the combs look clean from the 2 major brood diseases AFB & EFB so after freeing I would place bees back into those frames. The damage done buy the larva is not very suaver and the bees will clean it up and repair the holes easily.

[Jen]

Apis, I haven't brought them home yet, I took pics last night and posted first. Bees are still in their hive at my friends house, nothing has changed there.