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Offline Marty68

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splits
« on: July 11, 2014, 08:24:31 am »
i've got a dbl deep that has had a super on it since the flow started here. maybe a month. they have only produced 1 frame of honey. just wondering if i should split it and hope next year they will do something.
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Offline brooksbeefarm

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Re: splits
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2014, 08:36:33 am »
Need more info, did they have to draw 20 deep frames out? ect. Jack
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Offline tbonekel

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Re: splits
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2014, 08:53:48 am »
For whatever reason, I have one hive that gave me barely 4 full frames (medium) of honey this year. The queen was a laying monster. Lots of bees. Beats me as to why. I don't know if I would split. It doesn't seem that it would solve the problem, but who knows. If this is a first year hive, I would let it try again next year and see what happens. I'm thinking about moving mine that didn't do so well to someplace else.
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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: splits
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2014, 10:29:29 am »
If.. as the reason Jack asked if they had to draw comb...   They had drawn frames to store in, and just did not produce, I would mark that hive as a prime candidate for splitting..
   My reasons?   If they are good bees that grow well, that queen can head a nuc to make bees and brood for you. Put a different queen in with HER bees when you start a new nuc or hive from her brood. Maybe they are not great producers.. fine.. you dont want them in a production hive, but they could be invaluable as a resource for bees.
   New queens from better genetics put into the rest of the splits from that hive should yield production hives when they reach full potential.
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Offline riverbee

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Re: splits
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2014, 10:55:27 am »
marty, like jack said, need a little more info?

how many frames did they have to draw out?
or was all the comb drawn?
when did you start this hive? from a package or a swarm?
if started this season, did you put the super on the same time as the second deep?
what's in the 2nd deep?
are you using a queen excluder?
how old is the queen?

LOL, just a few questions........  :D
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Offline Marty68

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Re: splits
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2014, 07:59:00 pm »
this is a first year queen. they had to draw out about half the comb. no i did not put the super on at the same time lol. i got it from a nuc i bought. about 90% of the second deep is full with brood and honey for them. they do have to draw the comb on the super though but they aren't really up there. there is no queen excluder on it. and i started with the sugar water again to see if that help them draw out. the other 2 hives with supers are on it are doing great. that's why i was asking about the splits. she has bee's and brood but i don't see much action from them anymore. not sure what's going on with them.
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Offline riverbee

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Re: splits
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2014, 11:59:40 pm »
okay marty, this is why it is good to have more than one hive so that we can learn and compare each of the hives, not all hives are equal, not all queens are equal.  what you need to do is get in there and see what that queen is doing? are there eggs, larvae and brood in all stages, and a good pattern? is she laying well? is there a pest problem?

i don't typically split a first year hive, not saying you can't, but what is the purpose of the split?  if you have a problem queen, this is easily remedied to just requeen the hive, or if the hive is queenless, a divide on this hive will not help you in either circumstance.   i also like to get my bees built up in two deeps nice and strong going into my winter months so that the following spring when they are busting at the seams i can divide that hive and make an increase on my bees. if i do a lighter divide, i might get the donator hive to give me some honey as well.

i think first, after i read your reply, get in there and see what's going on before you decide to split the hive.  hope i made sense?

also, great decision to feed if you have foundation to be drawn, and the queen excluder left off.  but i really think you need to see what's going on with her.  when you do, post back and let us know!
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Offline Marty68

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Re: splits
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2014, 12:13:50 am »
didn't go in to deep with that hive but from what i seen i was wrong. they still have 3 frames to to build in the second deep. there are plenty of bee's in there and from i seen in last week thorough inspection she has eggs brood and larva in all stages. i was assuming that they were good enough to put a super on. all but those 3 frames in the upper box is left so i didn't see no harm in putting it on. i understood what you meant and thanks for the help. now another question. should i take the super off and let them fill up the 2 deeps then. don't want them to feel defeated and give up.
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Offline brooksbeefarm

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Re: splits
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2014, 12:24:00 am »
I don't know anything about the length of your honey flow or the weather pattern in your area? Our flow is usually over by now in our area, but the dutch clover is hanging in there big time this year. If the hive was mine i would take the super off and feed, feed, feed, they should push the queen down to the bottom deep and start back filling the top deep as the brood hatches out in the top deep to raise there winter brood and put up winter stores.If nothing much is blooming in your area and you have (i think you said two strong hives in that yard), i would put an entrance reducer on the problem hive while i was feeding it.With the flow about over (like in my area) there would be little if any chance of getting the foundation drawn in the super, so i would build them up in the double deeps and split them in the spring. JMHO. Jack
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Offline riverbee

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Re: splits
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2014, 12:43:43 am »
they won't feel defeated or give up marty with a good queen in there. 
what jack said, pull the super, and good advice for the reasons he stated...... :yes:

marty, where are the 3 undrawn frames located in the 2nd deep? 
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Offline Marty68

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Re: splits
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2014, 01:05:39 am »
2nd,3rd and 4th frames. i will pull the super off that one and feed them just like i'm doing the other 5. i knew they wouldn't make it so i didn't try.
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Offline riverbee

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Re: splits
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2014, 11:00:07 pm »
marty, don't give up on them just yet....you never know and you have better weather longer than we do....i would move those undrawn frames, 2, 3, and 4 towards the center, feed, feed feed.....if they don't draw them out, or don't draw them completely then you can move them out towards the end of the box come time for them to winter up.  if you think they are too weak to go into your winter, consider combing the bees with another hive or two. 
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Offline Marty68

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Re: splits
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2014, 09:13:51 am »
not giving up on them. just knew they would produce any honey. still gonna work with them. i will have more info on them today for you
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Offline riverbee

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Re: splits
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2014, 12:33:05 am »
okay marty,  first year colonies rarely produce extra honey for us to harvest.  post your info when you can!
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