Nucs and laying worker hive

[tbonekel]

Okay, so I inspected a hive today and when I opened it, they were really noisy. Right away, I thought they might be queenless. As I looked, I saw eggs. When I started looking, I saw one egg in each cell. Then, I saw them, several cells with multiple eggs. Crabapple!! Anyway, as I looked more at this hive, I saw a mite on a drone and several shb running around. I'm really not all that surprised because this was from a cutout from a big tree. I guess I'm mostly bummed because these bees are survivor bees that had been in that tree for years. So my plan is to shake them out away from the hive and freeze the frames. Here is my question. I have a nuc that I will place in the position of this laying worker hive. I plan on placing the frames in a full sized deep, then move it into position. After a day, I will place the frozen frames in that hive. If you were to shake out a bunch of bees, what time of day would you do it? Does it matter? Should I change the nuc to a full size box, then move it after a few days? I will only be moving about 3-4 feet so it may not matter. I guess I would like to know how you would do the full process. The nuc needs bees, so I'm thinking that if I shake out then move the nuc there, the bees will come back to that location and maybe into that new hive.

[Yankee11]

Yes, the laying worker hive that you shake out will go back to that same spot if there is a box sitting there, Done it several times.

If no box is there and other are around they will just spread out and go in different boxes.

I've done it at different times of the day, not sure it really matters. If you move a hive from a different spot though you'll have foragers out
and their box will be gone if you move it.

[iddee]

How many eggs in a cell, and where are they? 2 or 3 in the bottom of cells is a new queen getting started. 6 to 10 eggs on the sides of cells are laying workers.

Be sure before you act. Then see this post by lazybkpr.

http://www.worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/index.php/topic,2163.0.html

[tbonekel]

Ok, iddee. I'm game. I didn't see any cells with more than 2 eggs and for the most part all of the eggs that I saw were close to center. This same hive last week had no eggs as far as I could tell. I did give this hive a frame of eggs a while ago and this would be about the time that the queen would start laying, but it's about two weeks later than I thought it would be. Some of the cells did have what looked like very young larvae, but some of the cells has some milky liquid type substance in the cell, almost like royal jelly along with the larvae. I'm going out of town Sunday night for a week so I might look again in this hive on Sunday afternoon before I leave and see if there are any changes.

[iddee]

I recommend going out of town first, then checking them when you come back. You've already disturbed a new queen once and a second time that soon could bring trouble.

[riverbee]

"I didn't see any cells with more than 2 eggs and for the most part all of the eggs that I saw were close to center. This same hive last week had no eggs as far as I could tell. I did give this hive a frame of eggs a while ago and this would be about the time that the queen would start laying, but it's about two weeks later than I thought it would be. Some of the cells did have what looked like very young larvae, but some of the cells has some milky liquid type substance in the cell, almost like royal jelly along with the larvae"

what iddee said, leave them alone and check when you come back tbone........and btw, good thing you said you'd only be gone a week or we'd be looking for you, and don't forget to post back.........

[tbonekel]

Well, I'm back from my conference and checked the hive. Everything that is capped is drone and multiple eggs in many cells. Ugh! So I guess I need to something.

[iddee]

Time to shake them all out and freeze the frames.

[LazyBkpr]

Yepper.. Just did that to one of my hives...     

[GLOCK]

When I get a laying worker hive I just slap a nuc on top and it fixes it every time.
First ya need to cut a piece of plywood to fit the DEEP box

Then add paper

Then the nuc

Works every time.
Just saying.

[tbonekel]

Okay, Glock, I need more details. this nuc, I guess it's queenright? And you don't shake out the bees in the full deep? If this would work, it's exactly the situation I have. Right next to my laying worker hive, I have a nice little nuc with a good queen in it.

[GLOCK]

It works great I have done it at least  5 times in the last 2 years .
The nuc is queen right  and I leave it on for about a week  and then put the five frames from the nuc in the brood nest of the DEEP.
I have to run time to make the pizza.
But if you have any questions i'll  check after work . Like I said it's work for me with out fail.
Good luck.

[apisbees]

The issue I have is that when you have a hive that has had laying workers in it the bees still have some value the drone brood in worker cells is of no value and placing in, or combining it with another colony is detrimental. The bees will care for and feed the larva and feed the small drones. All the eggs, lava, pupa, and small drones will continue to be a drain on the colony for weeks and months to com.
I had a laying worker in a strong nuc last week also. I do not like freezing as it involves a trip back into the yard and hive at a later date. What I did was shake the bee off all the frames. I then pulled the cappings on all the capped drone brood with a capping scratchier. Next poured water on all the cells containing brood, larva, and eggs. this is enough to contaminate the drone brood, larva, and eggs, and place the frames back in the hive and the bees will have the frames cleaned out and ready for the laying queen to lay in with in a couple of days.

[Perry]

Glock and Apis:

This is great stuff. I too have recently discovered a couple of hives with what have to be laying workers. Both have lots of bees, and both are starting to make a mess of what were once decent brood comb frames. I have around a dozen nucs that I am deciding what to do with (most likely hive into singles for now) and I was wanting to do a combine with these two laying worker hives. I was worried about the bees killing the nuc queens when they encountered each other, but after reading your posts I will probably give it a try.
Apis, I like your idea for salvaging the comb by uncapping the drone brood and larvae and "flushing" it.
Thanks fellas.

[apisbees]

You don't need to wash it all out, only spray, dribble, or pour in enough clean water to trick the bees into thinking it is contaminated. This will cause them to carry out the larva. That comb you think is destroyed will be capped with level worker brood with in a couple of weeks. 

[Woody Roberts]

Glock and Apis, this is good stuff even though it don't really apply to me now it probably will in the future.
I'm my bees biggest pest and at the first hint of something wrong I do something like combine, shake out, requeen etc. Hence I've never had laying workers yet. But as I get more outyards farther away I know it will happen someday.

I believe sometimes I'm a little too quick on the trigger.