Author Topic: Think This Hive Needs Some Re-Configuring (Read 6522 times)

Jen · « **on:** July 13, 2014, 06:35:29 pm »

This is the primary swarm hive of this year. She Is A Butte! But I think I need to a switch the two top mediums.

This is the way the hive is now from top to bottom

medium - brood and lots of honey
medium - all frames pulled wax, four center frames with baseball size red nectar
Deep - Brood box, didn't open it up

Now I'll do a picturial because I'm thinking that the two mediums might need to be switched. There is MORE honey in this medium brood box than brood.

TOP MEDIUM: NO EGGS, NO LARVAE, JUST CAPPED BROOD

Then there are 4 frames of solid honey like this frame

MIDDLE MEDIUM: ALL THE REST OF THE FRAMES ARE PULLED BUT EMPTY

Shouldn't the top medium with the brood be down next to the Deep with brood?

tbonekel · « **Reply #1 on:** July 13, 2014, 06:47:35 pm »

Interesting that there is not much in that middle medium. I would probably go ahead and switch them. Those honey frames are purty!

Riverrat · « **Reply #2 on:** July 13, 2014, 08:10:13 pm »

I would leave it as it is with the honey on top. The queen will move down. Its getting to be that time of year when queens slow down on the laying.

Jen · « **Reply #3 on:** July 13, 2014, 08:28:37 pm »

Riverrat! I don't think the queen is up in this medium, it's too full, plugged with honey and some brood. There are no eggs or larvae either. I think she's in the bottom brood box.

Bamabww · « **Reply #4 on:** July 13, 2014, 08:48:36 pm »

Jen,

My first question is, how do you know there is brood in the bottom deep? If I understood the explanation you didn't open it up. There may be only pollen, nectar and more honey in the bottom deep. If there is brood in the bottom deep and enough bees to cover the brood in both boxes, I'd leave them the way they are and let the bees do what they are doing or remove the middle medium until the other medium is full of capped honey. Of course that depends on what is in the bottom deep. If it is packed out already with whatever, the middle drawn out frames will be needed soon enough.
Good luck.

Jen · « **Reply #5 on:** July 13, 2014, 09:06:33 pm »

Hi Bama

Yesterday I asked a question on what would happen if I did an inspection when the hive is bearding. I was asked back 'what are you looking for Jen?"

This time of year I like to do an inspection every 2-3 weeks for general purposes. It was advised to not disturb the bottom deep, of which I wasn't going to do, I just need to see if the top two mediums are busy enough to add the next medium. So I didn't check the bottom Deep.

Riverrat · « **Reply #6 on:** July 13, 2014, 09:24:11 pm »

If you move the honey super with the honey between the deep and other medium you are limiting the area the queen could possible be laying in. They will more than likely finish filling the middle medium as the brood hatches. I would rather have the honey above the brood nest. IMHO opinion bees usually know whats best. Before doing anything I think I would have a look in the bottom deep. I bet you find not much going on down there in the form of brood or honey.

Jen · « **Reply #7 on:** July 13, 2014, 09:36:13 pm »

Yes, Riverbee was just teaching me this about 2-3 weeks ago. But it's not all honey, there is quit a bit of brood in there, so that's what confused me. I think I'll follow you on this one Riverrat. Thanks!

But I'm still willing to listen to any other advice out there

pistolpete · « **Reply #8 on:** July 13, 2014, 09:37:38 pm »

My guess would be that this hive started as a deep and a medium, then about 2.5 to 3 weeks ago you put a new medium box on between the two. Am I close? What happened is the brood nest got split and the queen ended up in the bottom deep. As soon as those bees emerge in the top frames the area will get backfilled with honey. Then they will work their way down and fill the middle deep too. This is fine. A queen only needs about 8 deep frames to lay to her full potential this time of year.

I don't know what your summer flows are like, but you might want to consider extracting those 4 capped frames. You deserve it. Do you recall if you were feeding while those frames were being filled?

barry42001 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 13, 2014, 09:39:04 pm »

Don't know how it is in California but we are anticipating a fall flow here with all the moisture that we've been having in rain although the fall honey flow is probably not what you want to keep as it tends to be goldenrod , Aster what many would consider undesirable honeys because it definitely is of an inferior quality to the spring and early summet flow. Having inspected my hive last week the queens are still laying full patterns, although I am really expecting them to slow down. What I was leading up to is the bees are going to start consolidating the brood nest for wintering personally and it's my personal opinion I would look down in there for eggs to see if the Queen has started laying eggs down below at this point is not enough to know that there are capped brood or mature larvae the Queen you can expect will taper off but not stop, so at any point in time there should be all stages of brood.

iddee · « **Reply #10 on:** July 13, 2014, 09:53:50 pm »

As the rat said, leave it as is. The queen has likely moved down and they are just waiting for the rest of the brood to emerge. You said it was all capped. Either she is laying in the bottom box or the hive is queenless.

pistolpete · « **Reply #11 on:** July 13, 2014, 09:55:16 pm »

There is one other hypothesis: the hive is queenless. It's an unlikely scenario, because there are some larvae in one of those frames, so you had a queen 8 days ago.

riverbee · « **Reply #12 on:** July 13, 2014, 11:41:03 pm »

jen, it is and can be confusing. i agree with riverrat, leave as is, and as iddee pointed out, "The queen has likely moved down and they are just waiting for the rest of the brood to emerge. You said it was all capped. Either she is laying in the bottom box or the hive is queenless."

bees will always store honey over the broodnest, when the brood emerges in the top, they are just waiting as iddee said, you will see the bees clean and polish these cells to provide for the storage of honey and start filling these frames.

looking at your pix, (and as riverrat suggested)i would not hesitate to get to the bottom deep and see what's going on in there and determine whether you are queenright or queenless. i would not add another medium.

pete mentioned considering extracting the 4 capped frames, my humble opinion on this is to wait. they may need these frames.

apisbees · « **Reply #13 on:** July 14, 2014, 12:01:44 am »

What the pictures you posted tells me.
The events and timing are what I would suspect happened in Pete's post #8 When the 2nd medium was installed between the 2 supers there was a honey flow under way for the bees to get on the drawing of the comb across the whole super. Since then the honey flow has slowed to possibly the rate that is needed to maintain brood production, but could be less than that and the bees are consuming stored nectar. The bees are consolidating the nectar in selected areas in the middle super or are consuming it.
What I would do now would depend on my long term plans for the hive. Do I think a major flow will resume? What configuration do i want the hive in going into winter?
If i want the hive to go into winter as a deep with a medium over containing the winter stores. remove the mostly empty medium and place it on top. the box that is on top now is already set up for winter and the bees will continue to back fill it as the brood emerges. The drawn out mostly empty medium on top will get the honey moved out and used or stored in cells as brood emerges, if a flow doesn't resume. If a new flow starts and an abundant amount of nectar is collected the bees will go up and store it in the mostly empty super even if it is on top.
If you want to winter with 1 deep and 2 mediums then i would leave the hive as it is. Being where you live and the fact that the weather is favorable for feeding the bees late into the fall and early in the spring. Having to much winter stores can be worse than not having enough when feeding and the stimulating feeding does for the bees in building up.
I am in a location that winter weather is harsher than where you are and I push most hives down in to a single deep for over wintering.

riverbee · « **Reply #14 on:** July 14, 2014, 01:23:49 am »

well apis, you have some good advise, however WE are the ones that told jen to put the hive in the configuration it is currently in........and jen can correct me if i am incorrect.

"The events and timing are what I would suspect happened in Pete's post #8 When the 2nd medium was installed between the 2 supers there was a honey flow under way for the bees to get on the drawing of the comb across the whole super."

pete's post #8.........was not how it started.

jen wanted to 'convert' to a deep on the bottom before winter, so the deep (undrawn foundation) was placed on top of two medium boxes, to get the deep drawn. so jen's configuration then was medium, medium, and added deep. the bottom medium contained the queen and the brood. the second medium was honey, (no where for the queen to move, honey barrier above in the medium) the 3rd was the deep with undrawn foundation. when the deep was drawn, the deep was shuffled to the bottom (#1) with the medium brood box and queen next or #2 , and then the medium honey #3 on top........

if i was a beeginer i certainly would be confused. and jen correct me if i am mistaken on this.........but i would leave the hive as it is until you determine if you are queenright or queenless.

Jen · « **Reply #15 on:** July 14, 2014, 02:13:12 am »

Pete- I've been feeding since the beginning of spring, considering how much swarming happened to my poor hives, I have fed to help get comb drawn asap, it has worked. It's been the last 3 weeks maybe that I am feeding down to 3 holes now. With the California draught, we have had only a few short flows.

Riv- "but i would leave the hive as it is until you determine if you are queenright or queenless.

Meaning I need to get into the Deep and see what the heck is going on in there, it will be a couple of days before I can get back in there, I'll get back with ya'll then.

Seems the consensus is to leave the hive in this configuration. Will do, and I understand why. Thanks Everyone

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #16 on:** July 14, 2014, 09:17:46 am »

Not ignoring, just watching and reading. Can't add to what has been said already so waiting for updates...

Jen · « **Reply #17 on:** July 14, 2014, 11:42:07 am »

Hi Barry- "Don't know how it is in California but we are anticipating a fall flow here with all the moisture that we've been having in rain although the fall honey flow is probably not what you want to keep as it tends to be goldenrod , Aster what many would consider undesirable honeys because it definitely is of an inferior quality to the spring and early summet flow.

In upper northern California it would be Yellow Star Thistle and blackberries. Yellow Star Thistle is premium nectar for honey and there is usually a bounty of it from mid summer into fall. It is in bloom at the moment but I'm not seeing very many blooms at this time. Think I'll go to the farmers market this wednesday and talk to the bee guru there and see what his opinion is on blooms during this serious drought year.

Even on our overpasses on the freeways, there are huge electronic signs that say 'Serious Drought' (flash flash flash) Conserve Water! Be Exceptionally Careful With Fire!

Have you ever tasted pure aster honey? curious what it tastes like?

barry42001 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 14, 2014, 11:51:55 am »

Can't speak to Aster honey but goldenrod is very pungent( hows that for politeness ), very dark and sharp taste, alittle goes a long way. Not unpleasant if used judiciously.
All our BlackBerries are long done, some thistle in bloom.

rodmaker · « **Reply #19 on:** July 14, 2014, 06:24:43 pm »

Jen what type of blackberries are blooming this late ? Mine have all been done for three weeks and i have already cut to ground ready for next year. Just wondering if i need to get another variety to lengthen my harvest.