Author Topic: My First Cut Out Update (Read 13868 times)

Jen · « **on:** July 16, 2014, 03:09:14 pm »

PHASE 1 ~ It isn't pretty... tell me there is hope $:-\$ this time of year

It's been 8 days since the cut out. Walked up to the hive and noticed lots of speckles all over the front of the hive, they may be all over but I just noticed the front. Bees are coming and going but there are dead bees at the entrance.

Took the lid off. It became clear that my friend didn't follow thru with my instructions to straighten the frames out and center them when he got home. LESSON #1 on cut outs, make sure to fill the hive box with extra frames before heading home.

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Lifted the frames out, and took the deep off of the bottom board. Armageddon. LESSON #2 do my own vacuuming from now on, just a few bees at a time, or they suffocate. Or

Talk To Rob

Had a hunch that we poured damaged bees into this hive.
[url=http://postimg.cc/image/4ghwe1rzz/]

PHASE 2 ~ The Comb ~ The good news, there are bees amongst this mess. The bad news, no repair has been done to the comb.

Phase 3 ~ "Clean Up On Isle 4 Please" Picked off all dead matter on the frames. Hosed off the bottom board and deep. Reassembled the hive straightened the frames. Placed a temporary feeder jar inside of deep up on a couple of wood pegs until I can get him an inner cover. Put water on boardman. Screened off front entrance except for small space to the left for one bee at a time. Yellow jackets -Lots. Propped lid two popscicle stick high for vent.

The hive did not smell fresh, but not neccessarily like AFB, I think it was the decay of dead bees. There are 2 empty queen cups, one came with the colony, and one empty queen cell. Searched and searched for a queen, don't think so. No fresh larvae, eggs. Took a tiny stick and swirled around some of the capped brood, no AFB smell or brown snot.

Woody Roberts · « **Reply #1 on:** July 16, 2014, 07:56:01 pm »

I'd stick a frame of eggs in the middle and see what happens.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #2 on:** July 16, 2014, 08:10:25 pm »

What woody said.. I would probably also give them brood and the bees on that frame of brood.. BUT, if this fellow is not interested in following instructions to make sure they survive, you may be throwing good money after bad.

Papakeith · « **Reply #3 on:** July 16, 2014, 08:27:48 pm »

I'd be kinda pissed that the guy couldn't even be bothered to straighten out the frames.

Garden Hive · « **Reply #4 on:** July 16, 2014, 08:58:46 pm »

I'd say you gave it a good effort.....
Then I would likely do a combine with a hive in need.
I see very little on the frames worth TRYING to save. If he doesn't have any bees to pull from then if you really feel the need to save as is, then yes (a) frame of the appropriate larvae close by to make the quick exchange can be donated. I say this because I think you've said you were a bit away from him. If the larvae are chilled or exposed for any significant time in travel, then it's a waste anyhow. Of course feed.
I wish much luck !

riverbee · « **Reply #5 on:** July 16, 2014, 09:52:31 pm »

thanks for the pix jen......
i'm with garden hive, you gave it your best shot....combine....

she appears queenless, even giving it a frame of bees and brood, or eggs to raise a new queen, your looking at 7 weeks or more for them to successfully raise a queen, mate, start laying, another 21 days for workers to emerge, buildup, etc.....and no resources in the hive....and then they need bees and resources going into your winter.....
you will be running out of time i think?

not sure what your friend is willing to do?

Jen · « **Reply #6 on:** July 16, 2014, 09:57:34 pm »

Woody and Scott - "What woody said.. I would probably also give them brood and the bees on that frame of brood.. BUT, if this fellow is not interested in following instructions to make sure they survive, you may be throwing good money after bad

He and I had a chat yesterday about the beekeeping thing, he's not sure if he will keep stinging, but he thinks he would like to have a hive anyway. We made an agreement that if he ever looses interest, that he would give the hive to me, he is a mannered man so I trust that he will let me know. I do feel commited for at least this season. If I do get the hive back it will be equipt with the right woodenwork, I made sure of that

Jen · « **Reply #7 on:** July 16, 2014, 10:30:46 pm »

Riv- "she appears queenless, even giving it a frame of bees and brood, or eggs to raise a new queen, your looking at 7 weeks or more for them to successfully raise a queen, mate, start laying, another 21 days for workers to emerge, buildup, etc.....

This is the math that I've been thinking as well. Unless he want's to buy a queen for $75, if we can even find one.

It will be towards the ends of August if the bees make a laying queen, and is there enough drones for her Don't think the hive can bulk up soon enough for fall nights and winter.

Garden - "I say this because I think you've said you were a bit away from him. If the larvae are chilled or exposed for any significant time in travel, then it's a waste anyhow.

He lives about 20 mins out. I would have to be out there a lot to baby this hive along... hmmmm

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #8 on:** July 16, 2014, 10:32:08 pm »

K, SO if your committed.. maybe buying a queen for the hive is in order? Put a couple frames of capped brood and the bees on those frames in a nuc, close it up well to transport it. Drop those frames in. Give it a day for them to come to terms and organize, then give them a queen..
I have JUST started several nucs, but I also intend to keep them as nuc's so they should be able to build up ten frames between now and winter with some feed, hugs and pats... Your in Cali, so I do not know how much season you have left. 16 days to raise a queen, a week to mate, 21 days for brood to emerge will put you at the end of August / first week of September IF everything goes well..
A mated queen will have brood emerging mid August.. when does the fall flow end and cold start to move in where you live?

Maybe combining them with yours and splitting in the spring for him would be a better goal?

Jen · « **Reply #9 on:** July 16, 2014, 11:24:15 pm »

Scott- "when does the fall flow end and cold start to move in where you live?

I don't know when the fall flow ends, I've never paid attention to that until this year. Mid October for the very first turning of leaves, deer season.

Scott- "A mated queen will have brood emerging mid August..

Soo, counting on my fingers.... IF that all goes right with a mated queen, would she have time to make her winter workers? Am I thinking right at about two months?

Riverrat · « **Reply #10 on:** July 17, 2014, 09:13:54 am »

Lesson learned. I would never suggest a new keep who hasn't had some experience with a working hive to do a cutout. They just don't have an understanding of bees and how they work. I would do as the others said if there is enough bees introduce a frame of eggs.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #11 on:** July 17, 2014, 10:03:52 am »

A mated queen will give you two MAYBE three generations of brood at 21 days each. Letting them make a new queen on their own will give you one.. And a LOT of feeding during that time to get the hive up to weight... No drawn comb could be a problem if they do not jump all over getting it drawn... I have about the same amount of time.. A week or two less perhaps, depending on the fall.. Nothing I start now will overwinter in anything more than a nuc. If I had drawn frames that would go a long ways toward getting them ready for winter.

barry42001 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 17, 2014, 12:17:45 pm »

The other thing that has to be considered is do not expect large patterns brood, you're losing daylight and resources even if you do feed them up they might be more inclined to store it rather than use it to raise brood, in preparation for the winter

Jen · « **Reply #13 on:** July 17, 2014, 01:02:26 pm »

Yes Riverrat, but everything I have ever done with bees has been a lesson learned, I'm on my own a lot with the bees and used to casualties. However, this year during the swarming episode I actually gained positive knowledge, because I had soo many people here helping me out, You included

and now have 3 more hives to boot

so I am three steps ahead.

When the swarming was happening, hubby used the Bissel hand vac, but he only vacuumed for a minute or two max, and then gently dumped the bees into the hive and the bees were just fine. I realize that it was the 'over' vacuuming that was destructive to this hive. In time, if I become a bee catcher, I will invest in a vac like Robo's

And actually, I've read quite a bit from other new keeps on this forum that did their first cut outs and did pretty darned good. It would have been simply terrific if I had a mentor over my shoulder on this one, but it wasn't in the cards, so I watched a lot of Scott's and JP's videos. That is what most of us newbee's have, video's.

Have to have a sit down with Phill and see how he wants to proceed.

1. Either buy a queen $75, add pulled frames
2. Combine and give him a split next spring
3. Add some eggs and a couple of pulled frames and hope that we have a nice loong indian summer

lazy shooter · « **Reply #14 on:** July 17, 2014, 05:52:03 pm »

Quote from: Papakeith on July 16, 2014, 08:27:48 pm

I'd be kinda pissed that the guy couldn't even be bothered to straighten out the frames.

Me thinks he doesn't have enough interest and aggressiveness to be a beekeeper. But almost everyone at some point in time, does not live up to our expectations. Give him and the bees a chance.

Jen · « **Reply #15 on:** July 17, 2014, 11:08:24 pm »

Lazy shooter- "Give him and the bees a chance.

Ya get a big hug from me, Lazy! I'm trying to help my friend out ~

barry42001 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 17, 2014, 11:21:37 pm »

I suspect when it comes to beekeeping you need to find new friends lol

Jen · « **Reply #17 on:** July 18, 2014, 12:01:07 am »

I have Barry, right here on this forum

and every other beek that I know in this area. This friend isn't a beek yet, he's trying and I'm helping as best I can this season. After this season he'll have to make a decision.

barry42001 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 18, 2014, 12:45:23 am »

Yeah that's quite the mess with not alot of time to square it away, with diminishing natural resources, the bee math isn't working in that rather abused colony, nothing you did.

Jen · « **Reply #19 on:** July 19, 2014, 01:12:51 pm »

My friend Phill and I had a talk today about his options:

1. Either buy a queen $75, add pulled frames
2. Combine and give him a split next spring
3. Add some eggs and a couple of pulled frames and hope that we have a nice loong indian summer

Phill choose to add a frame of eggs with the bees, and a couple of pulled frames, feed, feed, feed, and let nature take it course. He and I both understand that it's late in the season. But if the hive doesn't bulk up by end of fall, we could combine with my hives then, and then I'll give him a split in the spring.

What would happen if I put two frames of brood and eggs in his hive? I have the resources...