I think I just figured something out this year.

[Yankee11]

I live right on the line where everything south of me is crop land, soybeans, cotton etc. Everything to the north of me is non crop land. I have developed
bee yards in both, north and south. Here's what I have just realized. The soybeans and cotton don't get planted and start blooming til late summer. I had some issues with some hives out there this spring (EFB) etc. I had to take thee hives down to no queen and no brood then put in another queen. Those hives are going gang buster right now. Huge and have 3 filled supers on them and need more.

So, here is my thinking. I have 18 hives out there right now. Since these hives dont do much til late summer. I could pull these over wintered queens in springs to sell in nucs and they have plenty of time to build back up for a honey crop. Meanwhile, let my northern bee yards make the spring honey. Then when the spring flow is over I could split the north hives for nucs and let them build back up the rest of summer.

Does this sound logical?

[apisbees]

Or you could maximize each hives potential and place the hives in the north in the spring for the early flows and then move them to the crops when the plants are ready to supply nectar to the bees. If you have good early spring yards the hives will build up and supply more bees and brood to make nucs than hives that are in an area with a poor spring flow. If you feed pollen and syrup 3 to 4 weeks before the natural pollen starts you will be able to produce 1 to 2 nucs early spring nucs per colony Buy the time you can raise queens or perches them. then super them and run them for the early flow. when the south fields are about ready for the bees pull the honey and pull a nuc to build up out of each hive giving it a queen cell, hives with an over abundance of brood pull 2 nucs from these. The nucs only need to be 2 frames of brood with a queen cell ready to emerge added. Move the nuc into the mating yard to mate the queen and to build up. and move the hive to the summer yard. Other than the time it takes to extract it takes almost the same time to look after a hive in a non producing area as it does in an area with a flow.

[Lburou]

Yankee, the beekeeping seems like a chess game with all the strategy it entails.  As I read your post and Apis' response, I wondered how far these two bee yards are apart? 

[apisbees]

Lburou wants to be like the cute kid in the Mr. Christie's cookie commercial. He wants to be in the middle so he doesn't have to decide.
He is hoping for a yard in the middle so the bees can decide which way to fly and they can have the best of both worlds.

[Lburou]

Thanks Apis, its been a long time since I was called 'cute.'   

Yankee's description of how his bees are doing shows a stark difference between locations.  I was wondering how far that was in his location.  They must be more than three miles (more or less) apart.  If less, location wouldn't make that much difference in my guess.  Beekeepers within three miles of my hives have the same tasting honey and do about the same overall.  Just asking for a data point for some future use. 

[Jen]

Lou- "Thanks Apis, its been a long time since I was called 'cute.'

    Nice come back Lou 

[Yankee11]

Ok,

North and south yards are 10 to 12 miles apart.

Apis, I did what you are saying this year. when spring was done I moved  about 10 very strong hives to the south yards and looks like at least 4 of them have now swarmed. Ugh That's a lot of work moving them to have them swarm. I was wondering what they would do being so strong then being put on a strong nectar flow. I mean, I know what happens, but it's the time of year I didn't know about.

The 2 that were already south that I removed the queens from in spring are 2 deeps and 3 supers high and stuffed with bees but I saw no signs of swarming Sunday.  This is what made me think about leaving them in south yards and removing queens from all of the south hives in spring.

Keep in mind I am still learning but I can tell you, I have raising bees figured out. My problem is keeping them in the boxes.

The advantage is that the south flow is predictable. I know when beans etc are planted and they are all irrigated so not really any guessing involved. Winter wheat gets harvested and then beans are planted.

I will read through your post several more times and digest what you are saying. This is fun though, spend the first 3 or 4 years focusing whats inside the box now the picture gets much much bigger.

[Lburou]

Ok,.......I will read through your post several more times and digest what you are saying. This is fun though, spend the first 3 or 4 years focusing whats inside the box now the picture gets much much bigger.

It is fun Yankee!  My bees are holding their own school though.  I keep on seeing more exceptions and learning variables affecting the most basic things I learned a long time ago.  How are your latest grafts coming?  My percentage of 'takes' is waaaay down the last couple weeks.

Apis, thanks for all your thoughtful advice.  You are one of the good guys, and I enjoy your posts. 

[Yankee11]

Here, here, to Apis. I agree with you Lb.

As far as grafts, I had to put it on back burner when I got this Honeysuckle bee yard and I have 5 trap outs going on. Just not enough time. My focus now
is keeping supers on those 16 hives on the crop fields. And getting all my other hives ready for the fall flow and winter. I am betting this fall flow is gonna be a doosy, we have a bunch of rain and mild temps all summer. Everything is really gren right now, unheard of for August around here.

Putting the grafting on back burner is a shame to because I have a brand new cloak board that will have to sit in the box til spring.

I bet your numbers are down now because of the time of the year. I don't think they are interested in raising queens right now.

I have been keeping up with your graftig, sounds like we are at about the same stage.

[Lburou]

You are in a good situation if you have to scramble to keep your hives supered Yankee. 

These last rounds of grafts have really humbled me.  We are in hot weather where my BeeWeaver queens completely shut down their laying.  Grafted from a VSH Italian queen, waiting to see if they shut down in the heat (and hopefully, again in Fall). 

Best of luck Yankee. 

Lee

[Jen]

I dunno Lou... Apis called me an Old Bag last night 

[apisbees]

Any hive that you move into a forage crop should be at a set strength the pulling of nucs or adding brood to any hives that are a bit below the needed standard. By equalizing we can control swarming and eliminate unproductive hives. And pull some early summer hives.
Girls are more steady when it comes to grafting into queen cells. Most of the best queen raisers I know are woman. Tell her three is more money to be made raising queens than making honey.

[Lburou]

....Girls are more steady when it comes to grafting into queen cells. Most of the best queen raisers I know are woman. Tell her there is more money to be made raising queens than making honey.

Don't doubt that, but, after 47 years of bliss, I have a pretty good idea that she would tell me where to put the grafting tool........I'm afraid I'm on my own in grafting Apis. 

[Yankee11]

question,

If I move a strong hive to the crop fields with a heavy flow starting. How long does it take a hive to get oriented and start bringing in nectar. I have 2 very strong hives here at the house( i just added the first super tonight) and am thinking about taking them out to the sunflower field.  Just wondering if it takes a day or two or weeks.

[apisbees]

Hours is what it takes. the scouts orientate the foragers take their direction from the bee dance and fly to the source. in the pollination of some fruit crops will move bees in one night and get the call to remove them in two days as they have sprayed to burn off the buds to stop over pollination. So pollination of the crop lasted a day and a half of bee flight.

[Yankee11]

So if I move these 2 strong double deeps to the sunflowers ans soybeans they have plenty of time to make honey? I think I feel a move coming up tomorrow night.

[apisbees]

I had a great conversation from an old time beekeeper form Yakama Washington about taking hives into fire-weed in the mountains at higher elevations. He ran 6000 colonies from California almonds to fruit and berry pollination in Washington taking some hives to the plains for honey and other up the mountains after fire weed honey. It blooms at all elevations but only seams to produce an abundant of nectar at certain elevations during any year. he told of taking a load of bees up the mountain in the early morning and dropping 2 hives off beside the road ever mile going up the mountain. In the evening head back down the mountain picking up hives till he came to the elevation where the hives had gained weight in the single day and unloading all the hives at this elevation and going down to bring the lower hives up to this level. He claimed that in the one day you will notice the weight gain when the bees have access to an intense flow.

[Yankee11]

That is something.

Well moved 2 hives tonight. Thanks for all help.

[LazyBkpr]

Careful Lb   Apis will want to rub your head soon!   

   In my last move, I noticed pollen coming in at just over an hour from the time I un screened the hives.  I tell myself that is why they were so ticked off at me, because they had work to do..  I mean think about it...  Lock your wife in the closet for just an hour and see how ticked she is when you let her out...