Author Topic: Starting Pre Fall Inspections Hive #3 (Read 8927 times)

Jen · « **on:** August 23, 2014, 02:15:23 am »

This is my fourth season, but this fourth year I will actually have help on how to ready my four hives for Fall and Winter. Thanks ahead of time.

This hive is one deep an one medium. It's a small swarm that didn't build up much this summer but has sustained quite well. I don't suspect it will gain any more this year. This hive has a swarmy queen in it. My question is: should I leave well enough alone for the winter or maybe combine with another hive this fall?

DEEP has five frames with brood

The other five frames look like this one, not much here

MEDIUM - honey/syrup

SURPISE!!

NO RUBY HUMMER FOOD! ~ We're in a good flow, about 3 weeks now, tar weed, so the bees have eaten the ruby stores and are back filling with NECTAR! Happy Dance

These are the frames that have the most capped honey to date. Will this be enough stores for this hive?

apisbees · « **Reply #1 on:** August 23, 2014, 08:38:16 am »

For your winters in Cali I would leave it alone. It has to much pollen in it but at this time of year that is not a bad thing, not enough pollen would be worse. There looks to be enough brood to provide a good winter bee population. You could cloak board the bees down to a 7 or 8 frame super by cutting 2 pieces of Styrofoam inside super side size and slip one on each side against the super side and remove 2 of the not drawn frames. This would do 2 things it would reduce the empty space in the hive and would also provide insulation against the winter cold. I would not install the cloak boards until mid to end of October when the bees have started to cluster. Styrofoam can be placed in the medium super also. If you feed until they stop taking syrup in the fall and start early in the spring, in your area these bees will need no more than 20 lbs of stored honey to cover the winter months. A smaller hive requires less food and the length of time that the bees can not be fed are the determining factors in overwintering food stores.

Jen · « **Reply #2 on:** August 23, 2014, 11:17:33 am »

Hi Apis

I was posting this last night and some how hit the post button before getting the pics on of the medium super. I'll do that now.

I like the idea of the styro. And I have a surpise to share when I get the super pics posted ~ stand by

pistolpete · « **Reply #3 on:** August 23, 2014, 01:47:02 pm »

looking good, that hive should winter all right. If you can get 10 medium frames like the one's pictured you've got enough stores for winter. Now's the time to rotate the most complete honey frames to the outside positions and let them work on the rest in the middle. Also a good time to do a mite count and treat if required. You want your winter bees to be as healthy as possible. For a hive that size, I'd consider a natural drop of 10 mites/day averaged over 3 days to be the treatment threshold. When the brood nest starts to contract in another month or so, you will get a much bigger natural drop, because the mites have less space to occupy.

Around here the bees continue to bring in honey till the end of September, albeit in reduced amounts. I'd hold off on feeding until the end of September, at which point you can decide if they really need more or not.

Jen · « **Reply #4 on:** August 23, 2014, 02:30:32 pm »

Solid advice Pete, Thanks!

"looking good, that hive should winter all right. If you can get 10 medium frames like the one's pictured you've got enough stores for winter. "

With the strong flow we have going on right now I see that these frames will be added to in no time. AND!

This hive is clear of Ruby Syrup

efmesch · « **Reply #5 on:** August 23, 2014, 03:00:27 pm »

I line up in agreement with those who've written above,,,but would add: Consider replacing the queen before you go into winter. If she is not up to your standards and leaves you with what to desire, a replacement with a nice young queen going into the new year should give you an excellent head start for the 2015 season.

Riverrat · « **Reply #6 on:** August 23, 2014, 03:35:43 pm »

Quote from: Jen on August 23, 2014, 02:15:23 am

This is my fourth season, but this fourth year I will actually have help on how to ready my four hives for Fall and Winter. Thanks ahead of time.

Isnt it great when you find a group that is like family we can all share our knowledge with. Makes beekeeping so much more fun.

Jen · « **Reply #7 on:** August 23, 2014, 03:51:55 pm »

Couldn't have said it better Rat!

Hi Ef!

It didn't occur to me that I could replace a queen in the fall for next years progress. However, if she didn't lay well this season she's probably not going to lay well next spring... I was thinking of replacing her next spring... hmmm. I do know of one place here in upper California that may still have queens.

Something else just occured to me... If I were to replace her now, and something happened to her, say they bees didn't like her and killed her, or she met up with some demise unknown to me... the hive would be queenless all winter. Unless they superceded her... now if that happened this late in the season, I don't know if I have enough drones to mate at this point. I have many dead drones around my hives.

If the new queen I bought got killed by the bees this time of year, and they superceded her, and there weren't enough drones to get her properly mated... would she stay with the bees unmated all winter long, then mate next spring?

I hope I made that clear ~ scratching head

barry42001 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 23, 2014, 03:59:45 pm »

If pigs had wings they would be eagles, can't what if everything. Pick a logical course and follow it. Anything is possible, but what is probable. Replacing the undesirable queen with a better ( hopefully ) one is never wrong. All the more going into winter with the upcoming spring brood rearing.

Riverrat · « **Reply #9 on:** August 23, 2014, 04:45:58 pm »

Quote from: Jen on August 23, 2014, 03:51:55 pm

would she stay with the bees unmated all winter long, then mate next spring?

I hope I made that clear ~ scratching head

No a queen has about a week window she must go on her mating flight after emerging. If she misses that window she will not mate. This does happen when the weather is bad and the queen emerges and is unable to go on her mating flights

Jen · « **Reply #10 on:** August 23, 2014, 04:58:03 pm »

This is interesting. So in the fall, if the queen misses her window for mating, what happens to her? will she die?

Riverrat · « **Reply #11 on:** August 23, 2014, 05:01:43 pm »

She will remain in the hive as a drone laying unmated queen.

Jen · « **Reply #12 on:** August 23, 2014, 05:07:45 pm »

Oooh yeah! That's right... Mkay, so we don't want that ~ Thanks for explaining that Rat

efmesch · « **Reply #13 on:** August 23, 2014, 05:13:10 pm »

Jen, in Israel it is common practice to replace queens (either bought or self-raised) as late as the end of October. Acceptance is no worse than it is during other seasons of introduction. Considering that California and Israel have much in common, weather wise, I would think that it shsould not be a difficult hurdle for your bees to handle.
However, as always, when it comes to regional questions, I say that the best thing to do is ask local beekeepers for their advice.

Jen · « **Reply #14 on:** August 23, 2014, 05:27:48 pm »

Now there's something I didn't know, that Isreal and Cali are in common weather wise

I'm not opposed to the investment and replacement of this queen. And frankly, she's one of the swarmy queens from spring. It might be a good idea to switch those genetics. Our farmers market is Wednesday, I'll stop by and visit with a couple of beeks there. Thanks Ef

pistolpete · « **Reply #15 on:** August 23, 2014, 06:33:42 pm »

Just put your old queen in a Nuc box with one frame of bees. This way you can bank her for a couple of weeks. When your new queen is accepted and laying, you can dispose of the old queen and re-unite the hive.

iddee · « **Reply #16 on:** August 23, 2014, 06:50:44 pm »

Fall requeening is, in many ways, superior to spring requeening. With that said, the brood pattern she is laying is great. She is this year's queen. I, for one, don't believe in swarmy genetics. She may be much less swarmy than her mother, who knows?

Now, if you buy a queen, will she be superior to this one? How confident are you in the breeder you will buy from?

Jen · « **Reply #17 on:** August 23, 2014, 06:59:47 pm »

Iddee- "Now, if you buy a queen, will she be superior to this one? How confident are you in the breeder you will buy from?

I've only had one experience with a queen breeder, that was late spring this year. When I introduced the new queens to the three swarmy hives, that swarmy poo poo stopped right now!

riverbee · « **Reply #18 on:** August 23, 2014, 10:14:09 pm »

"Isnt it great when you find a group that is like family we can all share our knowledge with. Makes beekeeping so much more fun. "

my two cents........

. i replace queens in july, for me anything that isn't strong enough later gets combined, they won't make it. requeening any later is a big crapshoot, the queens need to lay winter bees, and if she fails? well, i can still combine. you have a longer window than i do.

what you have going, i wouldn't mess with until next spring, just my humble opinion on how 'pigs fly'.......
"If pigs had wings they would be eagles, can't what if everything. Pick a logical course and follow it. Anything is possible, but what is probable"

"Now, if you buy a queen, will she be superior to this one? How confident are you in the breeder you will buy from?"

you have to ask yourself this question, will she be superior? and are you willing to take the gamble? you have worked really hard jen.

apisbees · « **Reply #19 on:** August 24, 2014, 07:25:02 am »

I agree with Iddee and riverbee. this queen is producing enough winter bees to take the colony through to spring. And Iddee could be right on the swarmy bees the early swarming could have been somewhat started and caused by beekeepers actions. And not have been totally bee genetics.